I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist
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01-06-2014, 07:06 AM
RE: I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist
(01-06-2014 07:04 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  if you choose option #3 you deny yourself the opportunity to say God did not cause the universe to exist because if you do not know how it began, you do not know that God did not create it.

There is no god.

You do know that I have challenged you to a boxing match don't you?
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01-06-2014, 07:06 AM
RE: I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist
(01-06-2014 07:04 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(01-06-2014 06:41 AM)Thinkerbelle Wrote:  Or what's behind Door #3: "I don't know how the universe began." Vwah-lah! Atheist.

if you choose option #3 you deny yourself the opportunity to say God did not cause the universe to exist because if you do not know how it began, you do not know that God did not create it.

vwah-lah

I do not believe in any gods, and I therefore have no reason to desire an opportunity to say "God did not create it" vwah-lah

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Swing with me forever, we can count up every flower, we can weather every storm.
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01-06-2014, 07:07 AM
RE: I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist
(01-06-2014 07:04 AM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  
(01-06-2014 07:02 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  you can believe that too. it is just not rationally defensible. heck, you can believe your big toe created the universe if you want to, its just not rationally defensible thats all.

The only rational explanation for the universe is, I don't know. I think anyone who pretends to know, without a doubt, how the universe was created is a moron.

you dont have to know how it was created without a doubt to say that the universe has a cause for its existence and to be rational in doing so. you would be guilty of moving goalposts if you required absolute proof in this area while not requiring it in any other.
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01-06-2014, 07:09 AM
RE: I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist
(01-06-2014 07:06 AM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  
(01-06-2014 07:04 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  if you choose option #3 you deny yourself the opportunity to say God did not cause the universe to exist because if you do not know how it began, you do not know that God did not create it.

vwah-lah

I do not believe in any gods, and I therefore have no reason to desire an opportunity to say "God did not create it" vwah-lah

precisely. you do not "desire" to say God created the universe. if the data runs contrary to your presuppositions, you deny the data and keep your presuppositions. in this itnis shown that it is not an intellectual issue but rather an emotional one.
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01-06-2014, 07:09 AM
RE: I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist
(01-06-2014 07:07 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(01-06-2014 07:04 AM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  The only rational explanation for the universe is, I don't know. I think anyone who pretends to know, without a doubt, how the universe was created is a moron.

you dont have to know how it was created without a doubt to say that the universe has a cause for its existence and to be rational in doing so. you would be guilty of moving goalposts if you required absolute proof in this area while not requiring it in any other.

I never had any goal posts to begin with. And why do you assume I do not require absolute proof in other areas? What other areas? I don't remember discussing any other areas with you.

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Swing with me forever, we can count up every flower, we can weather every storm.
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01-06-2014, 07:11 AM
RE: I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist
(01-06-2014 07:09 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(01-06-2014 07:06 AM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  I do not believe in any gods, and I therefore have no reason to desire an opportunity to say "God did not create it" vwah-lah

precisely. you do not "desire" to say God created the universe. if the data runs contrary to your presuppositions, you deny the data and keep your presuppositions. in this itnis shown that it is not an intellectual issue but rather an emotional one.

What are my presuppositions? And what data runs contrary to them?

Swing with me a while, we can listen to the birds call, we can keep each other warm.
Swing with me forever, we can count up every flower, we can weather every storm.
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01-06-2014, 07:11 AM
RE: I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist
(01-06-2014 07:06 AM)Mathilda Wrote:  
(01-06-2014 07:04 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  if you choose option #3 you deny yourself the opportunity to say God did not cause the universe to exist because if you do not know how it began, you do not know that God did not create it.

There is no god.

You do know that I have challenged you to a boxing match don't you?

this begs the question.

i know the cause of the universe cannot be God because God does not exist.

that is question begging. the only reason you give for denying God as cause is your view that God does not exist.
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01-06-2014, 07:13 AM
RE: I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist
(01-06-2014 07:11 AM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  
(01-06-2014 07:09 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  precisely. you do not "desire" to say God created the universe. if the data runs contrary to your presuppositions, you deny the data and keep your presuppositions. in this itnis shown that it is not an intellectual issue but rather an emotional one.

What are my presuppositions? And what data runs contrary to them?

God does not exist. the data that is best explained by there being a timeless immaterial non-spatial creator ofnthe universe who as a causal agent determines to create the universe ex-nihilo
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01-06-2014, 07:14 AM
RE: I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist
(01-06-2014 07:11 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(01-06-2014 07:06 AM)Mathilda Wrote:  There is no god.

You do know that I have challenged you to a boxing match don't you?

this begs the question.

i know the cause of the universe cannot be God because God does not exist.

that is question begging. the only reason you give for denying God as cause is your view that God does not exist.

If there is no evidence of the existence of a god then why would we need any other reason to assume it probably didn't create the universe?

Swing with me a while, we can listen to the birds call, we can keep each other warm.
Swing with me forever, we can count up every flower, we can weather every storm.
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01-06-2014, 07:14 AM
RE: I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist
(01-06-2014 07:11 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(01-06-2014 07:06 AM)Mathilda Wrote:  There is no god.

You do know that I have challenged you to a boxing match don't you?

this begs the question.

i know the cause of the universe cannot be God because God does not exist.

that is question begging. the only reason you give for denying God as cause is your view that God does not exist.

If you want to argue with me then you are free to take up the challenge.

In the meantime ... there is no god.
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