I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist
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01-06-2014, 07:15 AM
RE: I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist
(01-06-2014 07:09 AM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  
(01-06-2014 07:07 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  you dont have to know how it was created without a doubt to say that the universe has a cause for its existence and to be rational in doing so. you would be guilty of moving goalposts if you required absolute proof in this area while not requiring it in any other.

I never had any goal posts to begin with. And why do you assume I do not require absolute proof in other areas? What other areas? I don't remember discussing any other areas with you.

i dont assume i know you do not require absolute certainty when it comes to accepting the claims that fit neatly into your worldview.
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01-06-2014, 07:16 AM
RE: I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist
(01-06-2014 07:13 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(01-06-2014 07:11 AM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  What are my presuppositions? And what data runs contrary to them?

God does not exist. the data that is best explained by there being a timeless immaterial non-spatial creator ofnthe universe who as a causal agent determines to create the universe ex-nihilo

I don't believe in any god. Whether or not it exists I cannot say, but I will not believe unless I see evidence.

What is the data that proves that there is " a timeless immaterial non-spatial creator ofnthe universe who as a causal agent determines to create the universe ex-nihilo"?

Swing with me a while, we can listen to the birds call, we can keep each other warm.
Swing with me forever, we can count up every flower, we can weather every storm.
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01-06-2014, 07:17 AM
RE: I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist
(01-06-2014 07:14 AM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  
(01-06-2014 07:11 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  this begs the question.

i know the cause of the universe cannot be God because God does not exist.

that is question begging. the only reason you give for denying God as cause is your view that God does not exist.

If there is no evidence of the existence of a god then why would we need any other reason to assume it probably didn't create the universe?

because saying the universe created itself or saying the universe just popped into existence without a cause from nothing is not rationally defensible thats why. its absurd and unscientific
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01-06-2014, 07:17 AM
RE: I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist
(01-06-2014 07:15 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(01-06-2014 07:09 AM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  I never had any goal posts to begin with. And why do you assume I do not require absolute proof in other areas? What other areas? I don't remember discussing any other areas with you.

i dont assume i know you do not require absolute certainty when it comes to accepting the claims that fit neatly into your worldview.

How do you know this and what other things do you suppose you know about me?

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Swing with me forever, we can count up every flower, we can weather every storm.
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01-06-2014, 07:18 AM
RE: I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist
(01-06-2014 07:17 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(01-06-2014 07:14 AM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  If there is no evidence of the existence of a god then why would we need any other reason to assume it probably didn't create the universe?

because saying the universe created itself or saying the universe just popped into existence without a cause from nothing is not rationally defensible thats why. its absurd and unscientific

I never said either of those things.

Swing with me a while, we can listen to the birds call, we can keep each other warm.
Swing with me forever, we can count up every flower, we can weather every storm.
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01-06-2014, 07:19 AM
RE: I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist
(01-06-2014 07:16 AM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  
(01-06-2014 07:13 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  God does not exist. the data that is best explained by there being a timeless immaterial non-spatial creator ofnthe universe who as a causal agent determines to create the universe ex-nihilo

I don't believe in any god. Whether or not it exists I cannot say, but I will not believe unless I see evidence.

What is the data that proves that there is " a timeless immaterial non-spatial creator ofnthe universe who as a causal agent determines to create the universe ex-nihilo"?

the empirical data that calls for an absolute beginning of the space-time manifold and all matter and all.energy a la the universe
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01-06-2014, 07:19 AM
RE: I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist
(01-06-2014 07:18 AM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  
(01-06-2014 07:17 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  because saying the universe created itself or saying the universe just popped into existence without a cause from nothing is not rationally defensible thats why. its absurd and unscientific

I never said either of those things.

if you are an atheist you have no other feasible choice.
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01-06-2014, 07:20 AM
RE: I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist
(01-06-2014 07:04 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(01-06-2014 06:41 AM)Thinkerbelle Wrote:  Or what's behind Door #3: "I don't know how the universe began." Vwah-lah! Atheist.

if you choose option #3 you deny yourself the opportunity to say God did not cause the universe to exist because if you do not know how it began, you do not know that God did not create it.

vwah-lah

No. You also do not know the Great Pumpkin done it.
There could actually be literally billions of other possibilities. Your limiting them to two is just a testament to your Presuppositionalism, your vacuous dimwitted imagination, and your psychological NEED to maintain your defenses against the cognitive dissonances opening up your mind would bring.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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01-06-2014, 07:21 AM
RE: I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist
(01-06-2014 07:19 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(01-06-2014 07:16 AM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  I don't believe in any god. Whether or not it exists I cannot say, but I will not believe unless I see evidence.

What is the data that proves that there is " a timeless immaterial non-spatial creator ofnthe universe who as a causal agent determines to create the universe ex-nihilo"?

the empirical data that calls for an absolute beginning of the space-time manifold and all matter and all.energy a la the universe

What empirical data? (Humor me I don't know a lot about science)
What does an absolute beginning have to do with a timeless immaterial non-spatial creator?

Swing with me a while, we can listen to the birds call, we can keep each other warm.
Swing with me forever, we can count up every flower, we can weather every storm.
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01-06-2014, 07:23 AM
RE: I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist
(01-06-2014 07:20 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(01-06-2014 07:04 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  if you choose option #3 you deny yourself the opportunity to say God did not cause the universe to exist because if you do not know how it began, you do not know that God did not create it.

vwah-lah

No. You also do not know the Great Pumpkin done it.
There could actually be literally billions of other possibilities. Your limiting them to two is just a testament to your Presuppositionalism, your vacuous dimwitted imagination, and your psychological NEED to maintain your defenses against the cognitive dissonances opening up your mind would bring.

the great pumpkin could have created you too. heck you could be a brain in a vat of chemicals.

throwing out possibilities is easy and they come cheap. as a rational individual searching for truth i look at what is most plauisble not what is epistemically possible.
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