I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist
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02-06-2014, 02:00 AM
RE: I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist
(01-06-2014 10:06 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(31-05-2014 11:51 AM)catgoblin Wrote:  I'm new here, so I'm sorry if this has already been covered, but has anyone read this book?
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http://www.amazon.com/Enough-Faith-Athei...4H2JQ2QN36


My dad (a minister) sent this to me and I promised to read it Drinking Beverage

I'm about 1/3 of the way through and am pretty mystified--not sure what to think (not that I'm close to being reconverted to Christianity)

I wasn't familiar with the Cosmological or Kalam Cosmological Argument before I read this book. From my perspective, it seems pretty easy to dismiss this defending the God of the Bible, but what about a deistic God? The best thing I've thought of (so far) is that the assumption that the universe needing a sentient creator is unnecessarily complex, but from a teleological perspective, I don't see that going over very well.

I'm anticipating a pretty lengthy debate with my dad when I finish this, so I'd like to gather all the ammunition I can before then Wink


I'm not wading through 44 pages of Walker's bullshit to see if someone else posted this already, so much props if someone else beat me to it.


Fortunately we have Steve Shives, an atheist who has actually read that book, and has done a chapter by chapter breakdown of it; and he'll help explain why it's unfounded bullshit. He is the YouTube channel we need, not the one we deserve.

































































Page 2 or 3 I did but only the first vid.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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02-06-2014, 03:06 AM (This post was last modified: 02-06-2014 03:10 AM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist
(31-05-2014 12:31 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(31-05-2014 12:22 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  


at the 7 minute mark he strawman's Craig's view of the relationship between evidence and faith.

Should I watch more?

Fuck you.

Steve's summary of Craig's view is spot on, because he's actual read 'Reasonable Faith' you retarded charlatan. Craig places faith before evidence, and his faith is his ultimate 'get out of jail free' card. Craig doesn't believe that evidence compels faith, but is wholly apart from it; in contrast to Turek's and Geisler's stance that evidence should compel faith (not that either book ever presents any actual evidence).

"The way in which I know Christianity is true is first and foremost on the witness of the holy spirit in my heart. This gives me a self-authenticating means of knowing that Christianity is true, apart from the evidence." - William Lane Craig





That is exactly how Steve portray's Craig's view, because that is Craig's view you delusional fucktard. The only stawman here is the one in your own imagination. Fuck, just how ignorant is Walker? So fucking ignorant that when his hero's stance is shown to be what it is (vacuous and intellectually dishonest in the extreme), he think's it's a stawman rather than just the truth. That is Grade A+ delusion right there.

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02-06-2014, 04:46 AM
RE: I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist
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02-06-2014, 05:43 AM (This post was last modified: 02-06-2014 07:03 AM by WindyCityJazz.)
RE: I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist
The stupidity of this book is obvious just from the title. Why would anybody other than a creationist bother to even open this book? I mean, would you read a book titled "I Don't Have Enough Faith To Not Believe In Fairies"? On second thought, that might actually be entertaining, since it might contain a bunch of different delusions instead of the same rehashed religious crap that we've all heard over, and over, and over again.

The title of this book should be "I Don't Have Enough Rationality To Give Up My Indoctrination".

“Religion was invented when the first con man met the first fool.” - Mark Twain
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02-06-2014, 07:55 AM (This post was last modified: 02-06-2014 08:06 AM by RobbyPants.)
RE: I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist
(31-05-2014 12:06 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  I read it. I agree with most of what is written within it. It requires blind faith to be an atheist.

or rather let me rephrase that:

in order to be an atheist, one must believe certain things that are simply not rationally defensible.

What atheist beliefs are not rational?

And I'm going to stop you right now before you start over-defining atheism to be something that it isn't.


Edit: Holy balls. 45 pages in two days. Jeremy, I thought you were sticking around the boxing ring from now on. What happened?
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02-06-2014, 08:29 AM
RE: I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist
(02-06-2014 07:55 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  
(31-05-2014 12:06 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  I read it. I agree with most of what is written within it. It requires blind faith to be an atheist.

or rather let me rephrase that:

in order to be an atheist, one must believe certain things that are simply not rationally defensible.

What atheist beliefs are not rational?

And I'm going to stop you right now before you start over-defining atheism to be something that it isn't.


Edit: Holy balls. 45 pages in two days. Jeremy, I thought you were sticking around the boxing ring from now on. What happened?

an atheist that denies the existence of immaterial efficient causes must believe that either the universe has always existed, that the universe created itself, or that the universe came into being without a cause.

the first is indefensible by virtue of the empirical data against it, the second is self-contradictory, and the third is just absurd.

hence, one is irrational in maintaining any of them as being true.
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02-06-2014, 08:32 AM
RE: I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist
(02-06-2014 08:29 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  an atheist that denies the existence of immaterial efficient causes must believe that either the universe has always existed, that the universe created itself, or that the universe came into being without a cause.

the first is indefensible by virtue of the empirical data against it, the second is self-contradictory, and the third is just absurd.

hence, one is irrational in maintaining any of them as being true.

Holy fuck, you went ahead and did it anyway. That's not what atheism means. Let me try this again:

What is irrational about not believing in any gods? Your last post didn't answer that. You are presupposing that you need one or more gods to kick start the universe. It could be done without any gods, and it would be possible for one or more gods to exist without any of them causing the universe. You haven't proven you need any gods for your prime mover argument.
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02-06-2014, 08:41 AM
I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist
(02-06-2014 08:29 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(02-06-2014 07:55 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  What atheist beliefs are not rational?

And I'm going to stop you right now before you start over-defining atheism to be something that it isn't.


Edit: Holy balls. 45 pages in two days. Jeremy, I thought you were sticking around the boxing ring from now on. What happened?

an atheist that denies the existence of immaterial efficient causes must believe that either the universe has always existed, that the universe created itself, or that the universe came into being without a cause.

the first is indefensible by virtue of the empirical data against it, the second is self-contradictory, and the third is just absurd.

hence, one is irrational in maintaining any of them as being true.

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02-06-2014, 08:56 AM
RE: I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist
(02-06-2014 08:29 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(02-06-2014 07:55 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  What atheist beliefs are not rational?

And I'm going to stop you right now before you start over-defining atheism to be something that it isn't.


Edit: Holy balls. 45 pages in two days. Jeremy, I thought you were sticking around the boxing ring from now on. What happened?

an atheist that denies the existence of immaterial efficient causes must believe that either the universe has always existed, that the universe created itself, or that the universe came into being without a cause.

the first is indefensible by virtue of the empirical data against it, the second is self-contradictory, and the third is just absurd.

hence, one is irrational in maintaining any of them as being true.

The universe came about by natural but not as yet known causes. You just can't grasp "we don't know" in your childish mind, can you. Drinking Beverage

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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02-06-2014, 09:22 AM
RE: I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist
(02-06-2014 08:56 AM)Chas Wrote:  The universe came about by natural but not as yet known causes Gwyneth Paltrow. You just can't grasp "we don't know" in your childish mind, can you. Drinking Beverage

All betterz!

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