I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist
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03-06-2014, 03:00 PM
RE: I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist
(03-06-2014 02:55 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(03-06-2014 02:45 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  The personhood of the first cause is also implied since the origin of an effect with a beginning is a cause without a beginning. Therefore, it is more plausible that the cause of the universe’s beginning is a personal agent who freely chooses to create a universe in time. Philosophers call this type of causation “agent causation,” and because the agent is free, he can initiate new effects by freely bringing about conditions that were not previously present. Thus, a finite time ago a Creator could have freely brought the world into being at that moment. In this way, the Creator could exist changelessly and eternally but choose to create the world in time. (By “choose” one need not mean that the Creator changes his mind about the decision to create, but that he freely and eternally intends to create a world with a beginning.) By exercising his causal power, he therefore brings it about that a world with a beginning comes to exist. So the cause is eternal, but the effect is not. In this way, then, it is possible for the temporal universe to have come to exist from an eternal cause: through the free will of a personal Creator.



Read more: http://www.reasonablefaith.org/the-new-a...z33bwGw9yV




No.


If it is His will to do so, yes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_pleading

That is what you wrote there buried under looping circular arguments. You have not made any case why we should kick the can back a step.

what do you mean?
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03-06-2014, 03:05 PM
RE: I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist
(03-06-2014 03:00 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(03-06-2014 02:55 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_pleading

That is what you wrote there buried under looping circular arguments. You have not made any case why we should kick the can back a step.

what do you mean?

[Image: headpat5.gif] I'm sorry you can't understand simple concepts but it is not my job to educate you.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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03-06-2014, 03:06 PM
RE: I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist
(03-06-2014 03:05 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(03-06-2014 03:00 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  what do you mean?

[Image: headpat5.gif] I'm sorry you can't understand simple concepts but it is not my job to educate you.

ok
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03-06-2014, 03:46 PM
I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist
[Image: ebu7yva4.jpg]

“It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.”
― Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
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29-07-2014, 09:49 PM
RE: I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist
The YouTube guy that does a great chapter by chapter review from a athiests perspective is Steve Shives. Just search the title and then atheist review and you'll find it. It will save you having to read the other 2/3rds.

This book is what finalized my conviction to BECOME an atheist. Absolutely dishonest and disingenuous from cover to cover. Im glad my aunt sent it to me as I'm 100% deconverted after that pile of BS.
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30-07-2014, 12:00 AM
RE: I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist
I have too many other books I want to read first.

I am on page 78 of the god delusion, I have a demon haunted world next from carl sagan and god is not great from Christopher hitchens. Then I have a letter to the christian nation on my shelf from Sam Harris. There is a science book called physics of the impossible from Michio Kaku I want to read after that and another from him called physics of the future.

There is also a few hawking books I want to read that I have always heard of and stuff, but never actually got around to reading.

So MAYBE after I am done with the 7-8 books I have lined up so far to read. Maybe if I am done with those first, I will read this pile of trash.


My Youtube channel if anyone is interested.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCEkRdbq...rLEz-0jEHQ
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30-07-2014, 09:03 AM
RE: I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist
I know that this is an old thread but since someone has resurrected it I have something new and important to add. There is one little known principle that utterly destroys the cosmological argument. The principle is the primacy of existence.

The principle of the primacy of existence has to do with the necessary relationship between existence and consciousness. It says that things are what they are independent of anyone's conscious action. Wishing, wanting, praying, pleading, demanding, crying, stomping feet, imagining and tantrums will not make something true. The only alternative to this orientation of the existence/ consciousness relationship is its antithesis, the primacy of consciousness.

The primacy of consciousness principle says that things are not what they are independently of anyone's conscious action. Wishing, wanting, praying, pleading, demanding, crying, stomping feet and temper tantrums will make something true.

Those are the two alternatives and it is either one or the other. It can't be both. The primacy of existence is self evidently true. You can directly observe this relationship at any time and at any place. Also this principle has its own built in defense in that its opponents must affirm it even in the act of denying it.

As soon as anyone says "it is", just that, they have affirmed it. It is implicit in any knowledge claim including ones that aren't true. If someone denies the primacy of existence its truth can be demonstrated by simply asking them "is that true because you want it to be true or is it true independent of anyone's conscious action?".

Because the God claim affirms the antithesis of the primacy of existence any argument for God is instantly invalid by virtue of the fallacy of the stolen concept. Any argument. This is undeniable and inescapable.

This principle is not well known probably because it is a real party pooper. It doesn't allow for things like universes created out of nothing, magic and miracles. This issue is simply swept under the rug because it is devastating to any and all theist claims.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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01-08-2014, 03:17 AM (This post was last modified: 01-08-2014 03:28 AM by rampant.a.i..)
I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist
Shadow: Read A Brief History of Time. It will take you a day at most, if you haven't already.

Kakau is amazing, every quote I read by him is spot-on.

If you want some lighter reading, which is silly since Hawking is so brilliant his books are easier to read than The Stand, I suggest Philip K. Dick's "The Man Who Japed" and The Transmigration of Timothy Archer, Do Androids Dream, and any short story anthology you can get your hands on.


http://www.octobot.net/library/Dick,%20P...Archer.pdf

“It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.”
― Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
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01-08-2014, 07:55 AM
RE: I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist
I think it takes a bit of faith to fully believe and believe with out doubt some of the theories of transitional evolution.
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01-08-2014, 11:54 AM
RE: I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist
(01-08-2014 07:55 AM)Wicked Clown Wrote:  I think it takes a bit of faith to fully believe and believe with out doubt some of the theories of transitional evolution.

The theory of evolution only needs to be understood. It doesn't need faith. If you don't understand evolution, then read more and take college level courses in biology until you understand it. Religion is the only subject that requires you to believe without a rational justification. Evolution only requires that you understand the evidence.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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