I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist
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01-08-2014, 05:56 PM
RE: I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist
(01-08-2014 11:54 AM)Rahn127 Wrote:  
(01-08-2014 07:55 AM)Wicked Clown Wrote:  I think it takes a bit of faith to fully believe and believe with out doubt some of the theories of transitional evolution.

The theory of evolution only needs to be understood. It doesn't need faith. If you don't understand evolution, then read more and take college level courses in biology until you understand it. Religion is the only subject that requires you to believe without a rational justification. Evolution only requires that you understand the evidence.

It only requires faith if you do not; or, are not able to understand the science behind it.

This is why a like of Christians and Young Earth Creationists are simply unable to comprehend the notion that it does not require faith. It is because of their personal incredulity that makes them think this.

They have either never taken the time to actually study the science behind it, or they refuse to abandon their religion for five seconds to at least "TRY" to understand something that contradicts it. It is because that it contradicts their so called faith that they are talking to themselves in their heads about how false the evidence is that is presented in front of them, so they effectively shut off the part of their brain that allows them to comprehend new information and "tune" it out in a sense.

For example, If you have an absolute belief that the government is sending messages to other people using your brain as a relay and you hear voices. It is almost impossible to get you to believe or question it otherwise. You are so convinced that you hear these voices, just like theists are so well convinced that the earth is 6000 years old. That it is extraordinarily difficult to get a person like that to listen, let alone, get them to actually open up enough to receive the new information so they would actually understand it.

So, if the new information does not include 100% of what they believe in every and all ways and does not end with the statement PRAISE HIM!!!

They will be completely inept and unwilling to listen, learn, or believe anything that is told to them.

In a shorter way, They will reject it no matter what. Every single last one of them will tell you this exact statement.

Even if I was 100% convinced what I believe is false and every bit of evidence showed that Evolution was true ( god does not exist) ( the earth is billions of years old ) or whatever the evidence is they are rejecting.

They will STILL reject that proof and substitute their imaginary faith. Already fully well aware that they are not only wrong and their faith is wrong as well. This is an extremely dangerous kind of thinking. It means that you prefer your fantasies so much, that your fear and delusion is so gripping over your life. Even if you realize this and you DO. You will still believe in it.


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01-08-2014, 10:26 PM (This post was last modified: 01-08-2014 10:30 PM by WhiskeyDebates.)
RE: I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist
(01-08-2014 07:55 AM)Wicked Clown Wrote:  I think it takes a bit of faith to fully believe and believe with out doubt some of the theories of transitional evolution.

I think you have faith that it takes faith to believe in some theories of transitional evolution. Your faith in this matter is a turducken of stupid.
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02-08-2014, 04:55 AM
RE: I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist
(01-08-2014 07:55 AM)Wicked Clown Wrote:  I think it takes a bit of faith to fully believe and believe with out doubt some of the theories of transitional evolution.

What is "transitional evolution"?

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02-08-2014, 08:13 AM
RE: I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist
A post I had written on this subject recently in class...

When I carefully consider all evidence for evolution presented thus far, I find the case for evolution quite solid. However, the most compelling evidence for me would have to be the transitional fossils that we have learned about. When Tiktaalik was discovered several years ago I was amazed. For me this transitional fossil really was a great visual aid to appreciate the concept that species truly did evolve through time. This proved that there was a transition from gilled fish to a four legged, walking tetrapod. The species before it had no neck and eyes on the side of his head. The species after Tiktaalik had a flathead with eyes on top, and a crucial neck bone that allowed it to sway its head from side to side to observe predators. Tiktaalik is an intermediate between primitive fish and a primitive land living animal. It exhibited the homologous 1-2-5 structural concept of many animals that would involve simultaneously and later. Tiktaalik proved that one species can evolve into another. Tiktaalik is a common ancestor to many different forms of four-legged, oxygen breathing, land living animals (Coyne 2009).

The least compelling evidence for me thus far would have to be homology. This is mostly due to my inexperience and lack of knowledge with the concept. I understand that when two or more organs or structures are basically similar to each other in construction but are modified to perform different functions, they are said to be serially homologous. An example of this is a bat’s wing and a whale’s flipper. Both originated in the forelimbs of early mammalian ancestors, but they have undergone different evolutionary modification to perform the radically different tasks of flying and swimming, respectively. Sometimes it is unclear whether similarities in structure in different organisms are analogous or homologous. An example of this is the wings of bats and birds. These structures are homologous in that they are in both cases modifications of the forelimb bone structure of early reptiles. But birds’ wings differ from those of bats in the number of digits and in having feathers for flight while bats have none. And most importantly, the power of flight arose independently in these two different classes of vertebrates; in birds while they were evolving from early reptiles, and in bats after their mammalian ancestors had already completely differentiated from reptiles. Thus, the wings of bats and birds can be viewed as analogous rather than homologous upon a more rigorous scrutiny of their morphological differences and evolutionary origins (Britannica 2012). I get the concept, it is just something I need more time studying in order to feel confident asserting it to others.

The only game in town so to speak is the theory of evolution. This is because the absolute overwhelming amount of evidence, general majority consensus (97+%) of all scientists and plethora of substantiated experiments validated by fossil records reflects this to be true. I would suspect the less than 3% of scientist who don’t “buy into” the theory of evolution, have personal, biased faith-based reasons for doing so. Only faith could restrict someone from accepting real-world evidence of evolution. There is no competing scientific theory of the development of life on this planet. So in summary, an educated, careful contemplation of all empirical evidence substantiates evolution theory.



References:

Coyne, J. (2009) Why evolution is true. London: Penguin Books Ltd.

Britannica (2012) retrieved from: Retrieved from http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topi...7/homology

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02-08-2014, 11:31 AM
RE: I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist
(02-08-2014 04:55 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(01-08-2014 07:55 AM)Wicked Clown Wrote:  I think it takes a bit of faith to fully believe and believe with out doubt some of the theories of transitional evolution.

What is "transitional evolution"?

A single cell organism becoming a fish, which becomes an amphibian or reptile, which eventually becomes a mammal, that eventually becomes you and I, is how I'd explain it.
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02-08-2014, 11:37 AM
RE: I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist
(02-08-2014 11:31 AM)Wicked Clown Wrote:  
(02-08-2014 04:55 AM)Chas Wrote:  What is "transitional evolution"?

A single cell organism becoming a fish, which becomes an amphibian or reptile, which eventually becomes a mammal, that eventually becomes you and I, is how I'd explain it.

That is simplified to the point of being ridiculous. It would be the same as saying to invent the plane get some paper then attach an engine then paint on TWA. You are missing so many steps it is incoherent.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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02-08-2014, 11:57 AM
RE: I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist
(02-08-2014 11:37 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(02-08-2014 11:31 AM)Wicked Clown Wrote:  A single cell organism becoming a fish, which becomes an amphibian or reptile, which eventually becomes a mammal, that eventually becomes you and I, is how I'd explain it.

That is simplified to the point of being ridiculous. It would be the same as saying to invent the plane get some paper then attach an engine then paint on TWA. You are missing so many steps it is incoherent.

More or less proving Shadowfox's point of
(01-08-2014 05:56 PM)Shadow Fox Wrote:  It only requires faith if you do not; or, are not able to understand the science behind it.
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02-08-2014, 11:57 AM
RE: I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist
(02-08-2014 11:37 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(02-08-2014 11:31 AM)Wicked Clown Wrote:  A single cell organism becoming a fish, which becomes an amphibian or reptile, which eventually becomes a mammal, that eventually becomes you and I, is how I'd explain it.

That is simplified to the point of being ridiculous. It would be the same as saying to invent the plane get some paper then attach an engine then paint on TWA. You are missing so many steps it is incoherent.
What is a better way of giving the definition of transitional evolution in one sentence?

I know that there are transitional fossils that support the theory but I was just trying to sum it up in few words.
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02-08-2014, 12:14 PM
RE: I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist
(02-08-2014 11:57 AM)Wicked Clown Wrote:  
(02-08-2014 11:37 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  That is simplified to the point of being ridiculous. It would be the same as saying to invent the plane get some paper then attach an engine then paint on TWA. You are missing so many steps it is incoherent.
What is a better way of giving the definition of transitional evolution in one sentence?

I know that there are transitional fossils that support the theory but I was just trying to sum it up in few words.

Gradual, cumulative, small changes over a vast gulf of time has led to the diversification of the biosphere we can observe today.

That is probably the closest to a single sentence describing modern evolutionary theory that you can get without conflating the main points.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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02-08-2014, 12:15 PM
RE: I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist
Excellent job! I'm going to use that definition if someone asks again.
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