I Don't Think I'm Jesus Christ
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27-12-2014, 12:02 AM
RE: I Don't Think I'm Jesus Christ
(27-12-2014 12:00 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(26-12-2014 10:54 PM)Gordon Wrote:  When you confess your sins and believe in Jesus Christ as your lord and savior, then I'll be glad to give you a reference.

You are an arrogant, delusional clown. Why are you here other than to be annoying?

Attention seeking. Thumbsup
Clowns crave attention.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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27-12-2014, 02:36 AM
RE: I Don't Think I'm Jesus Christ
(26-12-2014 10:51 PM)Gordon Wrote:  After all, you are a militant, hate-filled, disturbed atheist.
Religions such as Christianity and Islam bear the fruit of militant idealism.
No atheist has blown themselves up or gone at people with a gun in the name of atheism.
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27-12-2014, 08:23 AM
RE: I Don't Think I'm Jesus Christ
(26-12-2014 11:08 PM)Gordon Wrote:  
(26-12-2014 02:35 PM)Free Wrote:  You could not break even 1 of the 10 commandments if you simply honored the Golden Rule. Not one.

That's right. I already agreed with you on that. But that won't save you.


Quote:Jesus is arguing here that everyone is a god. He makes this argument to justify his statement of "I and the Father are one." he reasons that since the father had regarded others as gods, then he too should also be considered a god. he uses the Psalm as evidence that the Father does consider all to be gods.

I don't care how much academics you apply to it, you're missing it. He called himself the Son of God, and they were accusing him, so he brings up the point that their own scriptures called men "gods." So how could they be upset that he was calling himself the Son of God.

He's pointing out that they are hypocrites. Not that their scriptures are right. Jesus was Christ. Jesus is the only begotten son of God, and he knew it, because as you know in John 3:16, he says so.

Besides, human beings are gods (with a lower case g). We have dominion over the entire earth, we have the ability to commit suicide, we know we will die, we can become one with Christ, we are destined to become one with the Father.

What Jesus is doing in that whole section of the Gospel is stripping the religious leaders of all their power over him. He is the Son of God, not a "god."

Dude, you are totally missing the point here.

When Jesus says, "I and the Father are one" it denotes many things, one of which is obvious; claiming to be a son of God. The other is not so obvious to most religious persons; he is also claiming to be a god.

Immediately after he said that, some of the Jews went to stone him. Why? because, as the text says, because he had claimed to be a god. In ancient Jewish times, when anyone claims to be a son of the Father it directly translates in comprehension as a claim to being a god. That is precisely why the Jews went to stone him, and precisely why Jesus attempted to justify his claim with a partial quote of the Psalm of David.

Did you not notice that Jesus left off part of the Psalm which said, "and all of you sons of the most high?" He only defended himself with the part that was relevant, "I have said, you are gods," because that is all he needed.

It was automatically understood by the Jews that Jesus was also claiming to be a son of god, but that was not the problem the Jews had with him. His wording also denoted that he was a god, and therefore the Jews were going to stone him for blasphemy because it contradicted the 1st Commandment.

When anyone claims to be a son of God, it automatically means they are also a god in ancient Jewish understanding. Their understanding was like this:

If you are the son of an elephant, you are an elephant.
If you are the son of a lion, you are a lion.
If you are a son of God, you are a god
.

And that is exactly the problem the Jews had with Jesus' statement of "I and the Father are one."

Quote:
Quote:The first thing you need to do is dump religion. If you cannot do that, nothing else I say can help you. Not ever.

I didn't think you had a fucking answer.

That is the "fucking" answer, because as an atheist, I can school you easily into understanding your own religion. Why? Because I have absolutely no religious influence by any church or religious affiliation whatsoever to taint my comprehension.

You cannot possibly understand Jesus while bound by beliefs.

Not ever.

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How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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27-12-2014, 08:34 AM
RE: I Don't Think I'm Jesus Christ
(26-12-2014 10:51 PM)Gordon Wrote:  So, bite me.

Said the aging 2-person cult leader who tells us we have to follow his Jebus.
How fucking hilarious.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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27-12-2014, 08:44 AM
RE: I Don't Think I'm Jesus Christ
(26-12-2014 11:15 PM)Gordon Wrote:  
(26-12-2014 02:55 PM)Free Wrote:  Christ did not come from the House of David, yet Christians use scripture to demonstrate that Jesus came from the House of David, so therefore how can Jesus be the prophesied Christ?

That's not what's at stake. Jesus is making it clear that the Christ is a spiritual concept, not a secular born-of-man concept. But the Pharisees can't get that, because they are of the world, not of the Spirit.

What is it with atheists and Biblical literalism? You hang on it. You can't read the Gospels that way. Either the Holy Spirit is telling you what they mean, or you're lost in them. That's it.

Again you fail to understand the point here. Jesus is making it very clear that the Christ cannot come from the House of David, as in being a son of David. Yet, here stands theology claiming Jesus to be from the House of David while at the same time claiming him to be Christ.

It's a theological contradiction.

I don't need the "Holy Spirit" to tell me about "spiritual concepts. It is remarkably easy to understand Jesus without any of that woo. Here, let me demonstrate:

Jesus = Son of Man = Flesh
Christ = Son of God = Spirit

Jesus, as a man, could not be a son of God, so if you are worshiping him as a person, you have completely lost the plot. He specifically denoted the differences to you elsewhere in John, as so:

Joh_4:24 God is a spirit.

Joh_3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

If "God is a Spirit" as Jesus in John 4:24 teaches you, and the "Spirit gives birth to spirit" as Jesus in John 3:6 teaches you, then how can a flesh and blood man named Jesus be the off-spring of God?

He isn't, because he cannot be according to his own words

If you really want to understand Jesus, the first thing you need to do is separate him from Christ and look at both objectively. Jesus was the son of man, but according to his teachings, Christ was the son of God.

To verify this, go read the Gospels again, and try to identify quotes of Jesus where he appears to be speaking of himself in the 3rd person. It is at those quotes that you can see Jesus apparently speaking "in the spirit" as opposed to his own human words. The point of the 3rd person dialogue is to demonstrate that Jesus is allowing the Christ to speak through him as a spirit, as opposed to Jesus himself speaking his own words.

In short, if you are following Jesus, you are not following Christ.

Drinking Beverage

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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27-12-2014, 09:34 PM
RE: I Don't Think I'm Jesus Christ
(26-12-2014 10:54 PM)Gordon Wrote:  
(26-12-2014 01:55 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Reference ?

When you confess your sins and believe in Jesus Christ as your lord and savior, then I'll be glad to give you a reference.

You are a fucking joke of a human being.

When valour preys on reason, it eats the sword it fights with.
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27-12-2014, 09:54 PM (This post was last modified: 27-12-2014 10:12 PM by goodwithoutgod.)
RE: I Don't Think I'm Jesus Christ
(27-12-2014 08:44 AM)Free Wrote:  
(26-12-2014 11:15 PM)Gordon Wrote:  That's not what's at stake. Jesus is making it clear that the Christ is a spiritual concept, not a secular born-of-man concept. But the Pharisees can't get that, because they are of the world, not of the Spirit.

What is it with atheists and Biblical literalism? You hang on it. You can't read the Gospels that way. Either the Holy Spirit is telling you what they mean, or you're lost in them. That's it.

Again you fail to understand the point here. Jesus is making it very clear that the Christ cannot come from the House of David, as in being a son of David. Yet, here stands theology claiming Jesus to be from the House of David while at the same time claiming him to be Christ.

It's a theological contradiction.

I don't need the "Holy Spirit" to tell me about "spiritual concepts. It is remarkably easy to understand Jesus without any of that woo. Here, let me demonstrate:

Jesus = Son of Man = Flesh
Christ = Son of God = Spirit

Jesus, as a man, could not be a son of God, so if you are worshiping him as a person, you have completely lost the plot. He specifically denoted the differences to you elsewhere in John, as so:

Joh_4:24 God is a spirit.

Joh_3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

If "God is a Spirit" as Jesus in John 4:24 teaches you, and the "Spirit gives birth to spirit" as Jesus in John 3:6 teaches you, then how can a flesh and blood man named Jesus be the off-spring of God?

He isn't, because he cannot be according to his own words

If you really want to understand Jesus, the first thing you need to do is separate him from Christ and look at both objectively. Jesus was the son of man, but according to his teachings, Christ was the son of God.

To verify this, go read the Gospels again, and try to identify quotes of Jesus where he appears to be speaking of himself in the 3rd person. It is at those quotes that you can see Jesus apparently speaking "in the spirit" as opposed to his own human words. The point of the 3rd person dialogue is to demonstrate that Jesus is allowing the Christ to speak through him as a spirit, as opposed to Jesus himself speaking his own words.

In short, if you are following Jesus, you are not following Christ.

Drinking Beverage

The thing I find amusing is the huge differences between the genealogies of jesus in Matthew ch 1 and Luke ch 3. Both of these genealogies claim to record the ancestral lineage from David to jesus....yet the two lists present hugely contradictory information. But the knee slapper to me is....is David god? because the immaculate conception lie states that god impregnated mary with his spirit. So since he was not the byproduct of Joseph's seed, how does Joseph's alleged lineage have anything to do with.....anything? Consider

Lets take a peek:

Matthew states 28 people counting jesus, then Joseph on back to David.

Luke states 43 people counting jesus, then Joseph on back to David.

But again, neither is right because...he was born of god and mary Laugh out load

You just have to give Mary some credit, this "virgin" (yes, I know they mistranslated the word, but let me have some fun) got pregnant, and said oh shit, Joseph comes home and she says surprise! An angel came to me and gave me god's seed, we are going to have the messiah! Rejoice!...and Joseph didn't say...yeah right, who was it? Was it Hakmed the neighbor's boy?

[Image: rbd1te.jpg]

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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27-12-2014, 10:08 PM (This post was last modified: 27-12-2014 10:12 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: I Don't Think I'm Jesus Christ
(27-12-2014 09:54 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  
(27-12-2014 08:44 AM)Free Wrote:  Again you fail to understand the point here. Jesus is making it very clear that the Christ cannot come from the House of David, as in being a son of David. Yet, here stands theology claiming Jesus to be from the House of David while at the same time claiming him to be Christ.

It's a theological contradiction.

I don't need the "Holy Spirit" to tell me about "spiritual concepts. It is remarkably easy to understand Jesus without any of that woo. Here, let me demonstrate:

Jesus = Son of Man = Flesh
Christ = Son of God = Spirit

Jesus, as a man, could not be a son of God, so if you are worshiping him as a person, you have completely lost the plot. He specifically denoted the differences to you elsewhere in John, as so:

Joh_4:24 God is a spirit.

Joh_3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

If "God is a Spirit" as Jesus in John 4:24 teaches you, and the "Spirit gives birth to spirit" as Jesus in John 3:6 teaches you, then how can a flesh and blood man named Jesus be the off-spring of God?

He isn't, because he cannot be according to his own words

If you really want to understand Jesus, the first thing you need to do is separate him from Christ and look at both objectively. Jesus was the son of man, but according to his teachings, Christ was the son of God.

To verify this, go read the Gospels again, and try to identify quotes of Jesus where he appears to be speaking of himself in the 3rd person. It is at those quotes that you can see Jesus apparently speaking "in the spirit" as opposed to his own human words. The point of the 3rd person dialogue is to demonstrate that Jesus is allowing the Christ to speak through him as a spirit, as opposed to Jesus himself speaking his own words.

In short, if you are following Jesus, you are not following Christ.

Drinking Beverage

The thing I find amusing is the huge differences between the genealogies of jesus in Matthew ch 1 and Luke ch 3. Both of these genealogies claim to record the ancestral lineage from David to jesus....yet the two lists present hugely contradictory information. But the knee slapper to me is....is David god? because the immaculate conception lie states that god impregnated mary with his spirit. So since he was not the byproduct of Joseph's seed, how does Joseph's alleged lineage have anything to do with.....anything? Consider

Lets take a peek:

Matthew states 28 people counting jesus back to David.

Luke states 43 people counting jesus back to David.

But again, neither is right because...he was born of god and mary Laugh out load

You just have to give Mary some credit, this "virgin" (yes, I know they mistranslated the word, but let me have some fun) got pregnant, and said oh shit, Joseph comes home and she says surprise! An angel came to me and gave me god's seed, we are going to have the messiah! Rejoice!...and Joseph didn't say...yeah right, who was it? Was it Hakmed the neighbor's boy?

[Image: rbd1te.jpg]

We've actually had people here on TTA claim that Hebrews accounted the lineage through Mary. Hobo
What's even more amazing to me, is that if you read Matthew, he spends the ENTIRE first chapter trying to establish the Davidic line through Joseph, then at the end of the very same chapter has his Maury Moment : (oops)



Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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28-12-2014, 12:02 AM
RE: I Don't Think I'm Jesus Christ
(26-12-2014 11:57 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  So you can't. Somehow we all knew that.

"No one shall come to me unless the Father draw him"
"For many are called, but few are chosen".

Obviously Pops hasn't called me.

Maybe someday you'll actually read the Babble.

I actually have no idea what you're talking about unless I go back and re-read our previous conversation--but there are few things in this world more pointless than that.

Jesus did say what you're quoting. And it is possible God has not called you but has abandon you, maybe even before you were born. You may have been created specifically to be an atheist and then burn in hell. This is possible. God does do that.

I hope that's not the case. Because maybe this whole thing, these conversations we are having, are in fact God calling to you. Because BB, no other Christian is going to reach out to you the way you are--only me.

Again, that is not something I can judge. Only Jesus Christ will be your judge. So, it's between you and he.
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28-12-2014, 12:14 AM
RE: I Don't Think I'm Jesus Christ
(27-12-2014 02:36 AM)Stevil Wrote:  
(26-12-2014 10:51 PM)Gordon Wrote:  After all, you are a militant, hate-filled, disturbed atheist.
Religions such as Christianity and Islam bear the fruit of militant idealism.
No atheist has blown themselves up or gone at people with a gun in the name of atheism.

Oh, it's going to get a whole lot worse. There is coming a war more horrible than anything ever recorded in history. In this war, only complete extermination of the other side will end it. Atheists serve to tear down the old Christian Church. Muslims will be exterminated by the West, but the breakdown will be so great that no one will ever trust governments again. In that environment, those in Christ will rule the world.

And I'm not talking about Christ as the old Christian Church understood him; I'm talking about the Second Coming of Christ. Its not a person. It's an age ruled by a spirit, and that spirit is the Son of Man.

Veridicanism is only the first of many many individual sects that follow only the teachings of Jesus Christ and are actually "in Christ." It will provide a kind of template, a school of thought.

I must admit, I don't know exactly what that world ruled by those in Christ will look like. I doubt I'll be alive for it. I may see the start of the war, but this war will go on for maybe a hundred years. In the end, only the elect will remain. For all I know they may be childless as Jesus was, and the human race may die out.

I do know that once the world is ruled by "those in Christ," being human will be a hindrance to them. And there won't be much need to carry on. The earth was created to play out this scenario--it has no purpose after the scenario is completed.
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