I Don't Think I'm Jesus Christ
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28-12-2014, 12:17 AM
RE: I Don't Think I'm Jesus Christ
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28-12-2014, 12:24 AM (This post was last modified: 28-12-2014 12:41 AM by Gordon.)
RE: I Don't Think I'm Jesus Christ
(27-12-2014 08:23 AM)Free Wrote:  Dude, you are totally missing the point here.

When Jesus says, "I and the Father are one" it denotes many things, one of which is obvious; claiming to be a son of God. The other is not so obvious to most religious persons; he is also claiming to be a god.

Immediately after he said that, some of the Jews went to stone him. Why? because, as the text says, because he had claimed to be a god. In ancient Jewish times, when anyone claims to be a son of the Father it directly translates in comprehension as a claim to being a god. That is precisely why the Jews went to stone him, and precisely why Jesus attempted to justify his claim with a partial quote of the Psalm of David.

Did you not notice that Jesus left off part of the Psalm which said, "and all of you sons of the most high?" He only defended himself with the part that was relevant, "I have said, you are gods," because that is all he needed.

It was automatically understood by the Jews that Jesus was also claiming to be a son of god, but that was not the problem the Jews had with him. His wording also denoted that he was a god, and therefore the Jews were going to stone him for blasphemy because it contradicted the 1st Commandment.

When anyone claims to be a son of God, it automatically means they are also a god in ancient Jewish understanding. Their understanding was like this:

If you are the son of an elephant, you are an elephant.
If you are the son of a lion, you are a lion.
If you are a son of God, you are a god
.

And that is exactly the problem the Jews had with Jesus' statement of "I and the Father are one."


That is the "fucking" answer, because as an atheist, I can school you easily into understanding your own religion. Why? Because I have absolutely no religious influence by any church or religious affiliation whatsoever to taint my comprehension.

You cannot possibly understand Jesus while bound by beliefs.

Not ever.

Drinking Beverage

Honestly, Free, I feel like we are debating points we actually agree on. Or maybe I'm just not following you. I'm surprised you're an atheist. You seem awfully interested in the life of Jesus Christ.
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28-12-2014, 12:28 AM
RE: I Don't Think I'm Jesus Christ
(28-12-2014 12:14 AM)Gordon Wrote:  
(27-12-2014 02:36 AM)Stevil Wrote:  Religions such as Christianity and Islam bear the fruit of militant idealism.
No atheist has blown themselves up or gone at people with a gun in the name of atheism.

Oh, it's going to get a whole lot worse. There is coming a war more horrible than anything ever recorded in history. In this war, only complete extermination of the other side will end it. Atheists serve to tear down the old Christian Church. Muslims will be exterminated by the West, but the breakdown will be so great that no one will ever trust governments again. In that environment, those in Christ will rule the world.

And I'm not talking about Christ as the old Christian Church understood him; I'm talking about the Second Coming of Christ. Its not a person. It's an age ruled by a spirit, and that spirit is the Son of Man.

Veridicanism is only the first of many many individual sects that follow only the teachings of Jesus Christ and are actually "in Christ." It will provide a kind of template, a school of thought.

I must admit, I don't know exactly what that world ruled by those in Christ will look like. I doubt I'll be alive for it. I may see the start of the war, but this war will go on for maybe a hundred years. In the end, only the elect will remain. For all I know they may be childless as Jesus was, and the human race may die out.

I do know that once the world is ruled by "those in Christ," being human will be a hindrance to them. And there won't be much need to carry on. The earth was created to play out this scenario--it has no purpose after the scenario is completed.

You are such a trip. Or perhaps you are ON a trip.

Um, hey Gordon, when you die you rot in the ground and you don't exist anymore. Thumbsup

Just thought you should know.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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28-12-2014, 12:32 AM
RE: I Don't Think I'm Jesus Christ
(27-12-2014 08:44 AM)Free Wrote:  Again you fail to understand the point here. Jesus is making it very clear that the Christ cannot come from the House of David, as in being a son of David. Yet, here stands theology claiming Jesus to be from the House of David while at the same time claiming him to be Christ.

It's a theological contradiction.

I don't need the "Holy Spirit" to tell me about "spiritual concepts. It is remarkably easy to understand Jesus without any of that woo. Here, let me demonstrate:

Jesus = Son of Man = Flesh
Christ = Son of God = Spirit

Jesus, as a man, could not be a son of God, so if you are worshiping him as a person, you have completely lost the plot. He specifically denoted the differences to you elsewhere in John, as so:

Joh_4:24 God is a spirit.

Joh_3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

If "God is a Spirit" as Jesus in John 4:24 teaches you, and the "Spirit gives birth to spirit" as Jesus in John 3:6 teaches you, then how can a flesh and blood man named Jesus be the off-spring of God?

He isn't, because he cannot be according to his own words

If you really want to understand Jesus, the first thing you need to do is separate him from Christ and look at both objectively. Jesus was the son of man, but according to his teachings, Christ was the son of God.

To verify this, go read the Gospels again, and try to identify quotes of Jesus where he appears to be speaking of himself in the 3rd person. It is at those quotes that you can see Jesus apparently speaking "in the spirit" as opposed to his own human words. The point of the 3rd person dialogue is to demonstrate that Jesus is allowing the Christ to speak through him as a spirit, as opposed to Jesus himself speaking his own words.

In short, if you are following Jesus, you are not following Christ.

Drinking Beverage

So, Free, what do you think of Jesus? What do you think he is? You seem to know more about Jesus than any atheist I've spoke with before, so I'm curious as to what you think he is?

Do you think he didn't exist? Do you think he was mad? Do you think he was a con? What?

And while I have your ear, why are you an atheist?

I'm not judging or criticizing you; I'm not going to argue with you or insult you. I'm just curious as to what your story is.
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28-12-2014, 12:39 AM
RE: I Don't Think I'm Jesus Christ
(27-12-2014 09:34 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  
(26-12-2014 10:54 PM)Gordon Wrote:  When you confess your sins and believe in Jesus Christ as your lord and savior, then I'll be glad to give you a reference.

You are a fucking joke of a human being.

And you're a bitter homosexual who's shit scared of God, because you think homosexuality is wrong in the sight of God. You were raised that way. That's why you fight so hard against anything religious. You were raised by religious parents, and they probably hate you for what you've become, and you cannot separate your conception of God from your thoughts about your parents. Pity, really.

But, you deserve it. You didn't deserve it to begin with, but you became the person who does deserve it. And that's all I have to say to you. [Image: sadsad.gif]
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28-12-2014, 12:43 AM
RE: I Don't Think I'm Jesus Christ
(28-12-2014 12:39 AM)Gordon Wrote:  
(27-12-2014 09:34 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  You are a fucking joke of a human being.

And you're a bitter homosexual who's shit scared of God, because you think homosexuality is wrong in the sight of God. You were raised that way. That's why you fight so hard against anything religious. You were raised by religious parents, and they probably hate you for what you've become, and you cannot separate your conception of God from your thoughts about your parents. Pity, really.

But, you deserve it. You didn't deserve it to begin with, but you became the person who does deserve it. And that's all I have to say to you. [Image: sadsad.gif]

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28-12-2014, 12:44 AM
RE: I Don't Think I'm Jesus Christ
(28-12-2014 12:28 AM)dancefortwo Wrote:  Um, hey Gordon, when you die you rot in the ground and you don't exist anymore. Thumbsup

Just thought you should know.

You wish it was that easy, but it's not. You will have to answer for your life. Ceasing to exist is easy. Most people who die, and I've been with many who have, don't talk about religion or life after death, or how they hope they will live after they die. They're usually just tired and ready for it to end. And this life does end, but your consciousness remains. It was never part of your body anyway.

The horror to face is not ceasing to exist, but standing before your Creator and giving account for the person you were. Yes
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28-12-2014, 12:49 AM
RE: I Don't Think I'm Jesus Christ
(28-12-2014 12:44 AM)Gordon Wrote:  
(28-12-2014 12:28 AM)dancefortwo Wrote:  Um, hey Gordon, when you die you rot in the ground and you don't exist anymore. Thumbsup

Just thought you should know.

You wish it was that easy, but it's not. You will have to answer for your life. Ceasing to exist is easy. Most people who die, and I've been with many who have, don't talk about religion or life after death, or how they hope they will live after they die. They're usually just tired and ready for it to end. And this life does end, but your consciousness remains. It was never part of your body anyway.

The horror to face is not ceasing to exist, but standing before your Creator and giving account for the person you were. Yes

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28-12-2014, 04:29 AM
RE: I Don't Think I'm Jesus Christ
(28-12-2014 12:14 AM)Gordon Wrote:  I must admit, I don't know exactly what that world ruled by those in Christ will look like.
But you gave a pretty decent picture above.


(28-12-2014 12:14 AM)Gordon Wrote:  In this war, only complete extermination of the other side will end it. Atheists serve to tear down the old Christian Church. Muslims will be exterminated by the West, but the breakdown will be so great that no one will ever trust governments again. In that environment, those in Christ will rule the world.
This is what the world would look like if it were to be ruled by those "in Christ" whatever that means.
Countries with strong Christian theocratic rulers have been in place in the past. People were put to death or locked in chains for being heretics, or witches, for suggesting that the Earth isn't the center of the universe.
A world ruled by Christians would see the end of tolerance, diversity and freedom. It would be ruled by an iron fist, employing much force and violence to control the people. It would be a version of hell.

Atheists on the other hand support freedom, tolerance, religious freedom, equality,stable and thriving society, for things that actually matter, rather than worrying about which invisible god people imagine as their friend.

I personally have Atheist, Christian, Muslim, Buddhist friends and am very happy for these people to believe in whatever they want to believe in. I am not shocked, disappointed or worried if people convert from one religion to another, or in or out of religion, I'm not worried if people are gay, I'm not worried if people have abortions, or use birth control, I have no worries about people participating in yoga or wicken rituals or casting magic spells, or voodoo or whatever.

I will only get violent in order to protect myself or my loved ones.

The Christianity that you speak of on the other hand....
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28-12-2014, 05:49 AM
RE: I Don't Think I'm Jesus Christ
(28-12-2014 12:44 AM)Gordon Wrote:  The horror to face is not ceasing to exist, but standing before your Creator and giving account for the person you were. Yes

Lolz. You're fucked. Tongue

(28-12-2014 04:29 AM)Stevil Wrote:  Atheists on the other hand support freedom, tolerance, religious freedom, equality,stable and thriving society, for things that actually matter, rather than worrying about which invisible god people imagine as their friend.

Da fuq happened to "atheism is a lack of belief in gods and that's it?" Dodgy

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