I Love This Place...
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25-08-2015, 09:41 AM
RE: I Love This Place...
(25-08-2015 04:04 AM)Matrim Cauthon Wrote:  
(25-08-2015 03:26 AM)morondog Wrote:  [rant]
I used to love WoT, despite the ridiculous stuff - stuff like, that 8000 years pass and over that 8000 year span, language and legends don't change. There's almost no religion in his world other than the Tar Valon business. That doesn't strike me as probable. But then, it is fantasy.

But then that dick Jordan a. went completely fucking nuts and basically spent the last 5 books of the series thinking of ways in which he could manipulate the storyline to incorporate more spanking of young ladies. Not that I'm against the concept but for fuck's sake. You invented a whole other world here.

b. And *then* the fucker went and died. So there's no closure, no actual final battle, and even if he ever did write a final battle scene it would be "And then the Dragon Rebornn killed all the bad guys are resealed the evil one back in his dark prison. Cleansed the saidin of evil to boot." Dressed up with a bit of drama to make it look like *maaaybe* there might be some plot tension somewhere.

There's two or three things that I like about WoT, the one being the phrase "Death is lighter than a feather, duty is heavier than a mountain", the other being the Aiel. Except again, he overused them, the fucker. He invented good shit and then couldn't bring himself to close it out. About 75% of the series is spent going down completely unnecessary plot rabbit holes for no apparent reason.

Matrim Cauthon is undoubtedly one of his best characters though.
[/rant]

Dodgy... Well...I guess I'll just go kill myself now. Never heard such foul and soul crushing blasphemy... No Weeping

However, agreed - I'm certainly one of the best characters he ever met...wrote me just like I am... Big Grin

[Image: NLQk5OF.jpg?1]

*circa '98... Reminds me I'd really like to know where that Morrison 'poster' got lost...

Morondog - You know that the series was finished by another author, right? (One with much better prose, in my opinion.) I loved the final 3 books; Sanderson got it right back on track, using Jordan's outline.

I do agree about the 8000 years legends/language thing, which I had not really considered, and is odd considering the theme, at the start of every book, says: "The Wheel of Time turns, and Ages come and pass, leaving memories that become legend. Legend fades to myth, and even myth is long forgotten when the Age that gave it birth comes again."

But you pretty much have to be J.R.R. Tolkien himself, in terms of language and history skills, to come up with a changing language pattern and that degree of cultural change over time! It's possible he kept it that way for comprehensibility, since we were (as readers) having to absorb so many different cultures on that one world.

If you stopped reading before the final three books, I can definitely see where you think there are unnecessary "rabbit holes", but I felt that every one came to matter in the end. And the deaths of so many of the main characters in the final battle, and the ways in which they died, were amazing to me... especially Galad and Egwene.

Much as I liked Matt, my favorite characters were Faile, Lan, and Tam Al'Thor.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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25-08-2015, 09:57 AM
RE: I Love This Place...
(25-08-2015 09:25 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  
(25-08-2015 02:11 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  Well, I'm in the joint, see; and the library cart only comes around every two weeks. And I scanned a Jordan book, looked interesting, but after several attempts I couldn't read more than a couple of pages. So, yeah... I'm still butt-hurt over that, so fuck Jordan. Tongue

You can't start the Wheel of Time anywhere but on page 1 of book 1. Seriously, it's All Bad™ if you try it any other way.

Ironically, he wrote a prequil about halfway through the series, and I don't think it should be read before book 1.

A prequil? Big Grin

Yeah, it was 7; and no, I ain't doing it. Tongue

(I've got that Kindle Unlimited shit, and it's the best thing ever [after my Gwynnies, oc])

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25-08-2015, 10:10 AM
RE: I Love This Place...
(25-08-2015 09:41 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  
(25-08-2015 04:04 AM)Matrim Cauthon Wrote:  Dodgy... Well...I guess I'll just go kill myself now. Never heard such foul and soul crushing blasphemy... No Weeping

However, agreed - I'm certainly one of the best characters he ever met...wrote me just like I am... Big Grin

[Image: NLQk5OF.jpg?1]

*circa '98... Reminds me I'd really like to know where that Morrison 'poster' got lost...

Morondog - You know that the series was finished by another author, right? (One with much better prose, in my opinion.) I loved the final 3 books; Sanderson got it right back on track, using Jordan's outline.

I do agree about the 8000 years legends/language thing, which I had not really considered, and is odd considering the theme, at the start of every book, says: "The Wheel of Time turns, and Ages come and pass, leaving memories that become legend. Legend fades to myth, and even myth is long forgotten when the Age that gave it birth comes again."

But you pretty much have to be J.R.R. Tolkien himself, in terms of language and history skills, to come up with a changing language pattern and that degree of cultural change over time! It's possible he kept it that way for comprehensibility, since we were (as readers) having to absorb so many different cultures on that one world.

If you stopped reading before the final three books, I can definitely see where you think there are unnecessary "rabbit holes", but I felt that every one came to matter in the end. And the deaths of so many of the main characters in the final battle, and the ways in which they died, were amazing to me... especially Galad and Egwene.

Much as I liked Matt, my favorite characters were Faile, Lan, and Tam Al'Thor.

Jordan had the worst pacing of any author Book 1 was 90% slow grind then rush to get to the end but damn he could build a world. The one thing he did that most fantasy authors don't is really dive into the politics of magic. If you have magic in your world it will severely mess up the normal power structure and he really explored that. He also collected just far too many characters and that bogged down the story. Of the 3 Main characters Mat is the most interesting Perrin is the least. He took shortcuts but gave himself in-story reasons for them "Ta'veren" means that you can literally just give you MC's whatever they need when they need it and not try to explain it past them being Ta'veren.

WoT is a sprawling epic and well worth reading but it does drag in places and there are probably at least 2-3 superfluous novels and at least 5 plot lines that could have been skipped, Faile being kidnapped being by far the worst that was just wheels spinning in the mud it changed nothing accomplished nothing and if removed from the story it has no effect.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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25-08-2015, 10:11 AM
RE: I Love This Place...
Glad you joined us. Thumbsup

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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25-08-2015, 11:09 AM
RE: I Love This Place...
(25-08-2015 10:10 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  WoT is a sprawling epic and well worth reading but it does drag in places and there are probably at least 2-3 superfluous novels and at least 5 plot lines that could have been skipped, Faile being kidnapped being by far the worst that was just wheels spinning in the mud it changed nothing accomplished nothing and if removed from the story it has no effect.

I actually felt the opposite way, about the number of plotlines... my only complaint about them is they got SO big they forced him to dead-end some of them, essentially, and I think if they had been more fleshed out they would have been amazing. Rather like the Forgotten Realms, it's the kind of place that needs to be engaged by many different authors telling many different stories, rather than trying to tell every possible part of the world in a single epic.

As for Faile's kidnapping, I see your point, but without it we wouldn't have had a couple of pretty cool scenes that gave insight into the nature of Perrin and Faile's relationship. And a pretty cool battle.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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25-08-2015, 11:33 AM
RE: I Love This Place...
(24-08-2015 06:07 PM)Matrim Cauthon Wrote:  Just saying. Really. Thanks, Seth. Smile
Hug

Hello! Big Grin
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25-08-2015, 11:57 AM
RE: I Love This Place...
(25-08-2015 08:36 AM)Banjo Wrote:  
(25-08-2015 03:35 AM)Matrim Cauthon Wrote:  Yup, pretty sure. Even with my piddly few posts, I read a lot, and frankly...it's the closest I get to my own heaven, from spending my days living in a town that might as well represent the buckle of the bible belt...

...I'm surrounded by assholes. Every day.

This, like visiting my childhood home - if rare, is always still special...

I also have a business to run, food to put on tables, and most of my 'philosophical time' is spent arguing with those of the lunatic flavor - and not able to spend too much time with glorious like-minded folks like you... Wink

Fair enough. Perhaps contribute more then?

Hadn't looked that up yet, as try my best to keep stupid questions to a minimum...but now that you bring it up - what exactly would my options for contribution be?
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25-08-2015, 12:21 PM
RE: I Love This Place...
That counts. Smile

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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25-08-2015, 02:07 PM
RE: I Love This Place...
(25-08-2015 11:57 AM)Matrim Cauthon Wrote:  what exactly would my options for contribution be?

...posting, maybe?

Dodgy

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25-08-2015, 03:04 PM
RE: I Love This Place...
Bunch of fucking surly pessimists in here. Jesus, what crawled up your asses?

Glad you like it here Matrim. Don't let Muffs scare you. There's one or two people kicking around here that can strip that orange from him if he gets too out of hand. Dodgy

So many cats, so few good recipes.
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