I Think Atheists Actually Believe in God
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06-04-2012, 03:15 PM
RE: I Think Atheists Actually Believe in God
I read somewhere on someones signature that a Skeptic is what an idealist calls a realist. Well it sounds like this guy is calling us skeptics and he's obviously a idealist, with Christianty being the ideal lifestyle he proposes, so what's that make us?
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06-04-2012, 03:35 PM
RE: I Think Atheists Actually Believe in God
Sorry, I'm an atheist. I'm not a fake.

Bury me with my guns on, so when I reach the other side - I can show him what it feels like to die.
Bury me with my guns on, so when I'm cast out of the sky, I can shoot the devil right between the eyes.
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06-04-2012, 03:54 PM
RE: I Think Atheists Actually Believe in God
Sometimes I would like to believe but I can't, I have asperger. Faith is an emotional feeling, you can't logically explain the existance of god besides that you "feel" him. Well I feel nothing, I have less emotions than the average human and to be fair I actually like it this way but I must accept sometimes it's hard for me to accept one day I will die and I will just return to my previous state of independent particles. You might say there is scientific proof, but lets be fair, for every proof of god there is a logical explenation how it's not actually proof. Also it's not because we can't answer some questions that it must automatically be God, it means we don't know.

However I accept it's not impossible there is a supreme being, it's just highly unlikely, it's even more unlikely it's the god from the bible with all its inconsistencies, scientific mistakes and changes over time. Absolute knowledge is impossible so you can never know for sure there is a god or not.
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06-04-2012, 03:58 PM (This post was last modified: 06-04-2012 05:14 PM by Buddy Christ.)
RE: I Think Atheists Actually Believe in God
(06-04-2012 02:15 PM)Egor Wrote:  I think atheists, at least the atheists that hang out in forums such as this, know full well that God exists.

And I think that Gordon Lightfoot is the greatest musician who ever existed. Luckily for all of us, opinions are independent of reality.


Quote:Most atheists seem to be in rebellion against religion. They think God must be the Christian or Islamic or Jewish notions of God, and they think they are enlightened because they reject those notions. But how enlightened can that be? I mean seriously, of course God can’t be like that anymore than He is like Zeus or Apollo. These primitive revelations of God are just that—primitive, so how long can one dispute them before seeming to be primitive themselves?

That is correct. Atheism is the rejection of religious beliefs, so by definition, they HAVE to be against religion. They don't think God is anything, sloppy wording there. Before you can attribute characteristics to something, you would have to presume its existence first. We reject the concepts that we have been presented with. That doesn't mean we will necessarily reject all future definitions of God, though we may try to change the name, since the word God already has several definitions and doesn't need another one.


Quote:Why is there something rather than nothing?

Why would you assume there would be nothing rather than something? Maybe "nothing" is a meaningless term, since there has always been something.


Quote:How can consciousness arise from unconscious matter?

Consciousness is not a magical force, it's simply an evolution of sensory perception and chemical balances.


Quote:The universe began, but what began it?

IF the universe had a beginning, we don't know what caused it. But not knowing an answer to something doesn't give you license to make up your own unsupported answers for cognitive closure.


Quote:And why is Jesus Christ such an enduring presence in the consciousness of humanity?

Two words. Cultural. Ignorance. "Humanity" is not encapsulated by America and Britain. There are 4 billion people in Asia alone who have never even heard of your Jesus Christ.


Quote:Why do we seem to understand perfection with no examples of it?

Because "perfection" is a metaphysical term. Just because you can conceive of something, does not imply its existence. And if you say, "existence is a requisite of perfection," I have to then ask, for all the turtles of the world, is there a perfect turtle, who exists outside this realm and claims the status of deity turtle?


Quote:Why is there order in what seems to be a chaotic quantum reality?

Because order exists in chaos, hence the entire premise of chaos math. There is predictability in randomness. And what "order" are you referring to? We are on a giant rock, flying around an even bigger magnetic fireball for a brief period of time until we fly off into space, where there is sub zero temperatures and no oxygen. Point being? We are alive for about 1/1000000000000000000000 of the lifespan of the universe and then we will all die. Look at the bigger picture.


Quote:An atheist will tell you they just don’t know; can’t know; one day will know, or some other dodge. And yet, atheists are more aware of the arguments for God’s existence than the religious are. They know there’s only one explanation.

I think atheists are looking for faith, and the only way they can come close to feeling it is to deny it and have others argue against them. But they will still be held responsible in the end, because faith is a two-way street. God reaches out to you, and you, in turn, reach out to God.

An atheist will tell you that we can't know until evidence presents itself. We are aware of the arguments because theists enjoy preaching and proselytizing to us every chance they get. And they tend to use the same, tired, already been debunked 1000 times arguments.

If atheists were looking for faith, they would find it. It's incredibly easy to shut out the voice of reason and just believe whatever you want. I can literally conceive of a god that I would like to follow, convince myself that he exists, then whenever someone tries to debate me, use vague terms and circular logic to deter him. Of course Thuul exists, if he didn't, then where did we come from? The only logical answer for any of these hard questions is Thuul. Now praise him or spend eternity in the Land of Razorblades where you will be sliced forever.

"Ain't got no last words to say, yellow streak right up my spine. The gun in my mouth was real and the taste blew my mind."

"We see you cry. We turn your head. Then we slap your face. We see you try. We see you fail. Some things never change."
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06-04-2012, 04:04 PM (This post was last modified: 06-04-2012 05:02 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: I Think Atheists Actually Believe in God
(06-04-2012 02:15 PM)Egor Wrote:  I think atheists, at least the atheists that hang out in forums such as this, know full well that God exists. I don’t think they’re ignorant at all. In fact, I’ll bet they pray more often and more directly than most so-called religious people do. Granted, their prayers are probably nothing more than insults and complaining, but I’ll bet they pray all the same.

Well since one would have no way of determining that, that presumptious conjecture, is meaningless. It's an attempt to try to justify the position that faith is the ONLY reasonable response to a "wondrous" universe to YOURSELF, and project it on others. Please explain how insults and complaining are "prayer", (and while you're at it, define "prayer").

(06-04-2012 02:15 PM)Egor Wrote:  Most atheists seem to be in rebellion against religion.

Nah. Rejecting religion, is not "rebellion" Just plain, simple rejection. Religion is all just stupid, and ignorant, (usually BOTH it it's own origins and development), and the logical and scientific reasons to reject it.

(06-04-2012 02:15 PM)Egor Wrote:  They think God must be the Christian or Islamic or Jewish notions of God, and they think they are enlightened because they reject those notions. But how enlightened can that be? I mean seriously, of course God can’t be like that anymore than He is like Zeus or Apollo. These primitive revelations of God are just that—primitive, so how long can one dispute them before seeming to be primitive themselves?

Tell us about your "enlightened" god.

(06-04-2012 02:15 PM)Egor Wrote:  I’ve always found atheism to be a kind of half-baked rationality. In other words to deny the existence of God, they have to ignore certain obvious things:

Nope. You're just ignorant of the simple resonable explanations for the "certain obvious things".

(06-04-2012 02:15 PM)Egor Wrote:  Why is there something rather than nothing?

Physics and Cosmology have answered that question. When did you take a Physics class, and where ? What was the last book you read on Quantum Cosmology ?

(06-04-2012 02:15 PM)Egor Wrote:  How can consciousness arise from unconscious matter?

The exact nature of "consciousness" is not fully understood, (yet). It does not arise without complex brain chemistry. How much do you know about Neurophysiology ? Just because you don't have a complete explanation for how things work, today, is not a reason to jump to "oh (my) god did it". Did she create self-awareness in Bonobos and dolphins ?

(06-04-2012 02:15 PM)Egor Wrote:  The universe began, but what began it?

See the answer to the "nothingness" question. If you ever took that Physics class , you would not ask such silly questions, which most high school kids can answer, these days.

(06-04-2012 02:15 PM)Egor Wrote:  And why is Jesus Christ such an enduring presence in the consciousness of humanity?
.
In relative terms, some people, (and there are 33,000 sects of Christianity..so don't assume ANYONE, INCLUDING YOU, ..who I hear has been told is NOT a Christian.. all think the same thing about Yeshua bar Josef), have held their myriad of opinions on him for about .01 of the time Homo Saapiens has been around. That is not "enduring". The historical Jesus only began to be examined in the last few hundred years.

(06-04-2012 02:15 PM)Egor Wrote:  Why do we seem to understand perfection with no examples of it?

Ever heard a Mozart piano concerto ? It's all a matter of opinion, anyway.

(06-04-2012 02:15 PM)Egor Wrote:  Why is there order in what seems to be a chaotic quantum reality?

Ever thought of taking a Math class, or a course in Choas Theory. More simple answers, obviously one does not know about.

The entire post is a shining example of :

Argument from ignorance, also known as argumentum ad ignorantiam or "appeal to ignorance" (where "ignorance" stands for: "lack of evidence to the contrary"), is a fallacy in informal logic. It asserts that a proposition is true because it has not yet been proven false, it is "generally accepted" (or vice versa). This represents a type of false dichotomy in that it excludes a third option, which is that there is insufficient investigation and therefore insufficient information to prove the proposition satisfactorily to be either true or false. Nor does it allow the admission that the choices may in fact not be two (true or false), but may be as many as four, (1) true, (2) false, (3) unknown between true or false, and (4) being unknowable (among the first three).[1] In debates, appeals to ignorance are sometimes used to shift the burden of proof.

(Thank you Wiki). Einstein

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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06-04-2012, 04:40 PM
RE: I Think Atheists Actually Believe in God
(06-04-2012 02:15 PM)Egor Wrote:  I think atheists, at least the atheists that hang out in forums such as this, know full well that God exists. I don’t think they’re ignorant at all. In fact, I’ll bet they pray more often and more directly than most so-called religious people do. Granted, their prayers are probably nothing more than insults and complaining, but I’ll bet they pray all the same.

Most atheists seem to be in rebellion against religion. They think God must be the Christian or Islamic or Jewish notions of God, and they think they are enlightened because they reject those notions. But how enlightened can that be? I mean seriously, of course God can’t be like that anymore than He is like Zeus or Apollo. These primitive revelations of God are just that—primitive, so how long can one dispute them before seeming to be primitive themselves?

I’ve always found atheism to be a kind of half-baked rationality. In other words to deny the existence of God, they have to ignore certain obvious things: Why is there something rather than nothing? How can consciousness arise from unconscious matter? The universe began, but what began it? And why is Jesus Christ such an enduring presence in the consciousness of humanity? Why do we seem to understand perfection with no examples of it? Why is there order in what seems to be a chaotic quantum reality? An atheist will tell you they just don’t know; can’t know; one day will know, or some other dodge. And yet, atheists are more aware of the arguments for God’s existence than the religious are. They know there’s only one explanation.

I think atheists are looking for faith, and the only way they can come close to feeling it is to deny it and have others argue against them. But they will still be held responsible in the end, because faith is a two-way street. God reaches out to you, and you, in turn, reach out to God.

*smacks face*
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06-04-2012, 04:44 PM (This post was last modified: 06-04-2012 04:51 PM by Anjele.)
RE: I Think Atheists Actually Believe in God
We REALLY need a facepalm icon! Frusty

I'm not anti-social. I'm pro-solitude. Sleepy
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06-04-2012, 04:44 PM
RE: I Think Atheists Actually Believe in God
[Image: tumblr_m1ojgepZiZ1r72i4b.jpg]

[Image: s1hlsk.gif]
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06-04-2012, 05:05 PM
RE: I Think Atheists Actually Believe in God
Geez Egor,

I'm guessing you were bored today?

"I think of myself as an intelligent, sensitive human being with the soul of a clown which always forces me to blow it at the most important moments." -Jim Morrison
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06-04-2012, 05:10 PM
RE: I Think Atheists Actually Believe in God
(06-04-2012 04:44 PM)Anjele Wrote:  We REALLY need a facepalm icon! Frusty

Ya we really do
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