I ain't got no quarrel with them Viet Cong. No VietCong Ever Called Me Nigger.
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08-06-2016, 10:18 PM
RE: I ain't got no quarrel with them Viet Cong. No VietCong Ever Called Me Nigger.
(08-06-2016 06:17 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(08-06-2016 04:58 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  I personally think his refusal to be inducted had a bit to do with the US discarding conscription by 1975.

Me too.

He brought to the forefront the disparity in inductions based on race and income.

Why in the world would a black kid in Selma want to fight for a nation 10,000 miles away when his own nation held him down upon return? It goes to my earlier point upthread: Ali saw black American veterans who'd served honorably being treated like dogshit by the very country they'd put their asses on the line for.

A veteran myself, I've got no problem at all, not a goddamned one, with Ali standing up against serving. Dissent like that is the best patriotism; and the vigorous exercise of rights is the best thanks we vets can hope to get for our service.
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09-06-2016, 08:38 AM
RE: I ain't got no quarrel with them Viet Cong. No VietCong Ever Called Me Nigger.
(08-06-2016 01:51 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(08-06-2016 01:44 PM)Stevil Wrote:  It seems that many people dodged the draft. Ali is one of many.

"Dodging the draft" would be running away (going to Canada like a lot of people did) or faking a physical infirmity. Ali didn't do any of that. He stood up and fought the draft, at the risk of his livelihood and his freedom (he could have gone to prison). That is not "dodging the draft". And yes, it seems heroic to me. Among other things, he was standing up for all American black people.

Two of my brothers went to Canada. They got their draft notices within a month of each other. My oldest brother said "fuck this shit" got on his motorcycle and went to Canada while my other brother (they're less than a year apart in age) got in his beat up 68' VW Bug, said "fuck this fucking shit" and also went to Canada.

My parents were against the war during the Kennedy administration and supported their decision. My mom once said that she had no intention of having her sons come back from Viet Nam in a body bag only to be replaced with a medal or a plaque to stick on the fireplace mantle. She was going to drive them up to Canada herself if that's what it took. She was a formidable woman.

They became Canadian citizens and love it there. Just the other day my brother Bruce mentioned how much more civilized Canada is than the US.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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09-06-2016, 08:41 AM
RE: I ain't got no quarrel with them Viet Cong. No VietCong Ever Called Me Nigger.
Hug That's for missing them.
My half brother is US citizen and Canadian resident. He is of draft dodging age, but he moved there with his mother when he was 12 Big Grin
We tease him about being a dodger though.
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09-06-2016, 08:57 AM
RE: I ain't got no quarrel with them Viet Cong. No VietCong Ever Called Me Nigger.
(09-06-2016 08:41 AM)skyking Wrote:  Hug That's for missing them.
My half brother is US citizen and Canadian resident. He is of draft dodging age, but he moved there with his mother when he was 12 Big Grin
We tease him about being a dodger though.

Thank you. I do miss them. They left when I was around 9 years old and all of a sudden two of my brothers were not around anymore. But we went up to visit them from time to time though it was still a big gap in my life. It changed my life.

For years after they dodged the draft the FBI would show up at our door with briefcase in hand, black suit and tie and white button down shirt and I swear to god....sunglasses! They would ask my mother where they were and that there was a warrant for their arrest. Sometimes she was not too kind to them. I remember one time they came to the door asking about my brothers and she finally lost her patience and said something like...."do you actually think I'm going to make them come back so you can toss them in jail?"

Once, when I was around 11 they came to the door when no one else was home and they pumped me with all kinds of questions like, where did they live, what's their address, where do they work, when are they coming back to the US . I kinda told them, in my kid way, that they were up in Canada fishing in the Canadian Rockies somewhere. Laugh out load

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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09-06-2016, 08:57 AM
RE: I ain't got no quarrel with them Viet Cong. No VietCong Ever Called Me Nigger.
(09-06-2016 08:38 AM)dancefortwo Wrote:  
(08-06-2016 01:51 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  "Dodging the draft" would be running away (going to Canada like a lot of people did) or faking a physical infirmity. Ali didn't do any of that. He stood up and fought the draft, at the risk of his livelihood and his freedom (he could have gone to prison). That is not "dodging the draft". And yes, it seems heroic to me. Among other things, he was standing up for all American black people.

Two of my brothers went to Canada. They got their draft notices within a month of each other. My oldest brother said "fuck this shit" got on his motorcycle and went to Canada while my other brother (they're less than a year apart in age) got in his beat up 68' VW Bug, said "fuck this fucking shit" and also went to Canada.

My parents were against the war during the Kennedy administration and supported their decision. My mom once said that she had no intention of having her sons come back from Viet Nam in a body bag only to be replaced with a medal or a plaque to stick on the fireplace mantle. She was going to drive them up to Canada herself if that's what it took. She was a formidable woman.

They became Canadian citizens and love it there. Just the other day my brother Bruce mentioned how much more civilized Canada is than the US.

I didn't mean to disparage those who went to Canada. I was of draft age myself back then, and that's probably what I would have done had I been drafted. I got lucky, though -- the Vietnam war ended shortly after I became eligible, and my number was ridiculously high, so I was never in much danger.

No way I would have risked prison like Ali did, though. My balls are much smaller than his.
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09-06-2016, 09:06 AM
RE: I ain't got no quarrel with them Viet Cong. No VietCong Ever Called Me Nigger.
(09-06-2016 08:57 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(09-06-2016 08:38 AM)dancefortwo Wrote:  Two of my brothers went to Canada. They got their draft notices within a month of each other. My oldest brother said "fuck this shit" got on his motorcycle and went to Canada while my other brother (they're less than a year apart in age) got in his beat up 68' VW Bug, said "fuck this fucking shit" and also went to Canada.

My parents were against the war during the Kennedy administration and supported their decision. My mom once said that she had no intention of having her sons come back from Viet Nam in a body bag only to be replaced with a medal or a plaque to stick on the fireplace mantle. She was going to drive them up to Canada herself if that's what it took. She was a formidable woman.

They became Canadian citizens and love it there. Just the other day my brother Bruce mentioned how much more civilized Canada is than the US.

I didn't mean to disparage those who went to Canada. I was of draft age myself back then, and that's probably what I would have done had I been drafted. I got lucky, though -- the Vietnam war ended shortly after I became eligible, and my number was ridiculously high, so I was never in much danger.

No way I would have risked prison like Ali did, though. My balls are much smaller than his.

Oh, I know you weren't. I just wanted to write about this saga in my life. We're from a lower middle-class family which was the main source for the Viet Nam war and most of whom died. Rich kids generally got out of the war for one reason and another. My parents admired Ali for standing up against the war.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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09-06-2016, 09:08 AM
RE: I ain't got no quarrel with them Viet Cong. No VietCong Ever Called Me Nigger.
I bet they did.
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09-06-2016, 12:31 PM
RE: I ain't got no quarrel with them Viet Cong. No VietCong Ever Called Me Nigger.
As much as his death saddens me, I appreciate the fact that it is prompting these sorts of discussions here and elsewhere. That really goes to show how his presence, his persona, transcended his sport.

He may have died, but he's still making us think, and that's a good thing.

RiP, Mo.
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