I am a Christian--again
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03-11-2012, 08:35 AM
RE: I am a Christian--again
(02-11-2012 09:26 PM)Egor Wrote:  
(02-11-2012 09:03 PM)Chas Wrote:  There is no God. That's not denial, that's logic. And since there is no God, we look for understanding in evidence, reason, and logic.


Of course there's a God, and you wouldn't have reason or logic if there wasn't. If there's no God, there is no such thing as reason or logic--there is only chaos. Dodgy

If that's your whole basis, it's awfully weak.


There is no reason to believe that consciousness requires anything supernatural. Just because you can't see how conscious thought and reason emerges from the brain, doesn't mean it's magic.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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03-11-2012, 08:38 AM
RE: I am a Christian--again
(03-11-2012 12:48 AM)Egor Wrote:  
(03-11-2012 12:13 AM)Cardinal Smurf Wrote:  What effects exactly?


There is no way to escape the existential worthlessness that comes with atheism. You can stuff it down, ignore it, use all kinds of psychological defenses to cope with it; you can even pretend your life has whatever purpose you assign it, but in the end it doesn't work. Eventually the self-esteem is eroded and replaced with varying degrees of narcissism. But narcissism is inherently anti-social, and projection is innevitable. The worthlessness of the self is projected onto others--quite logically, as it were. It becomes easier to be rude, crude, ill-mannered, and basically anti-social.

Still, the devolution continues; Hedonism becomes the greatest good, again quite logically, and an inappropriate lust for life leads to a kind of cowardice and dishonor, and of course an utter over-reaction to religions. Religions condemn atheism and produce more socially acceptable human beings.

I was asked a question, and I answered it honestly. It's my opinion. I'm not implicating anyone in this group personally. If you find yourself convicted by what I've said, perhaps you should examine why that is. Yes
It doesn't work for you. Too bad. It works for me.
The universe is wonderful, life is wonderful, life is all too brief. I will enjoy it while I've got it.
I am sorry you feel a need to torture yourself with existential grief.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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03-11-2012, 10:45 AM
RE: I am a Christian--again
Hey Egor

Another chapter opens up Smile


At the end of the day... I'm glad you appreciate now at least that by being atheists we are not... you know, rebelling against God, or trying to bring down the establishment, or any of the other stuff. For me, that's a worthwhile outcome. We *need* people from different religious and/or atheist backgrounds to talk to each other. To value each other despite their differences (I would love it if it was *because* of our differences, but baby steps to the oven Hobo ). I have always been impressed by your fairly ruthless commitment to honesty with yourself.

You still seem to have some idea that we are kinda... headed down the road to dissolute lives and broken marriages and all the other guff... frankly that's what it is man. We're regular people. We just wanna get on with our lives. We try to behave in the way we think best... well yeah, there's probably the odd bad egg among us, but I would argue he/she is no bad egg because of atheism.

This is getting long. Wish you all the best Smile
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03-11-2012, 11:21 AM
I am a Christian--again
Can't be bothered reading another, "I've changed my mind again since yesterday." Egor, have you set the over/under on your next belief yet? I need to supplement my retirement fund and want to get in on some of that action.

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
~Izel
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03-11-2012, 01:16 PM
RE: I am a Christian--again
Careful Erx...he'll neg rep you too for pointing out the (ahem) strength of his convictions.

Just remember, we atheists are on the road to corruption...it's a fact, it came from a very reliable and stable source.

I'm not anti-social. I'm pro-solitude. Sleepy
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03-11-2012, 01:29 PM
RE: I am a Christian--again
(03-11-2012 01:16 PM)Anjele Wrote:  very reliable and stable source.
the horse's mouth ?
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03-11-2012, 02:25 PM
RE: I am a Christian--again
(03-11-2012 12:48 AM)Egor Wrote:  There is no way to escape the existential worthlessness that comes with atheism.

Who's trying to escape it, Girly embraces it. ... Big hugs, come hither big fella, big hugs. ... Hug Big Grin

(03-11-2012 04:10 AM)Egor Wrote:  If we have no purpose, then there's no reason to live.

(03-11-2012 05:25 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  Fucking Egor with his "my made up purpose is more real than your made up purpose." Where have we heard that argument before?

And all atheism is is having one switch to the off position rather than the on position, in the mind's bank of thousands of switches. Everybody makes up purpose. What you imply is discounted by the evidence; it is far more demonstratable that monotheism produces hate and discontent rather than atheism. one might think "one god" would lead to "one moral philosophy," but Christians and their ilk have a million justifications for their assholery. Yet atheists all seem to lead towards secular humanism. Hmmn... it seems to me that unification of purpose, rather than coming from god, comes from human nature.

And what "teachings of Jesus," there ain't any. It's just a bunch of ideals cobbled together from other moral philosophers. There's no consistency between "love thy neighbor" and "bring them before me, and slay them."

You were much better off with god as fundamental monistic consciousness.

And, once again, Gwynnies for the motherfucking win. Big Grin

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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03-11-2012, 02:30 PM
RE: I am a Christian--again
egor reminds me of Mitt Romney.

“Science is simply common sense at its best, that is, rigidly accurate in observation, and merciless to fallacy in logic.”
—Thomas Henry Huxley
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03-11-2012, 02:31 PM
I am a Christian--again
(03-11-2012 02:30 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  egor reminds me of Mitt Romney.

Only better looking.

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
~Izel
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03-11-2012, 02:33 PM
RE: I am a Christian--again
Romney might flip-flop less though.

“Science is simply common sense at its best, that is, rigidly accurate in observation, and merciless to fallacy in logic.”
—Thomas Henry Huxley
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