I am a Christian--again
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05-11-2012, 05:16 AM
RE: I am a Christian--again
(05-11-2012 05:05 AM)Egor Wrote:  
(05-11-2012 04:11 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  So why didn't you say you were back to being Veridican in the title, ya troll. Tongue


Because what's the point, really? It's just a Christian belief, so it falls under that umbrella. As a child, I was baptized as a Christian; when I was married, we had a Christian minister; when I die, I want a Christian funeral and a cross on my tombstone. So, why stress that I'm a "Veridican." Huh
Cause it's better? It means you put some thought into what you believe, rather than just accept unacceptable things. Wink

I mean, back when I thought being a prophet meant being a theist, I still couldn't do "Christian," so I fabricated "Pauline Israelite." Big Grin

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05-11-2012, 05:21 AM
RE: I am a Christian--again
***skips the whole thread***

Unbelievable. I stop talking to Egor for the last few months and you let him convert back to Christianity? You people make me SICK!!

Tongue

Egor, you still do not understand the basic facts, do you? Look, just enjoy what you like. Be proud of it and do not push it to other people, you will be alright. I just do not understand the need to put a name on your God? What was wrong with your beliefs before, like a few month ago? You were never an atheist, you were always a believer, you just didn't want to call that god a God. That way of believing is far more real, normal and healthy, then the one where you give your god a name and you join an organization that is suppose to represent your God. So Christian or not, you are still searching your faith...

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05-11-2012, 05:24 AM
RE: I am a Christian--again
(05-11-2012 05:21 AM)Filox Wrote:  ***skips the whole thread***

Yeah, and the whole thread skips you, major asshole. And why the fuck don't you have an oak leaf thingy? Two stars is major general... man, what a slap-dash unit, A2's "army." Dodgy

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05-11-2012, 06:53 AM
 
RE: I am a Christian--again
(05-11-2012 05:21 AM)Filox Wrote:  ***skips the whole thread***

Unbelievable. I stop talking to Egor for the last few months and you let him convert back to Christianity? You people make me SICK!!

Tongue

Egor, you still do not understand the basic facts, do you? Look, just enjoy what you like. Be proud of it and do not push it to other people, you will be alright. I just do not understand the need to put a name on your God? What was wrong with your beliefs before, like a few month ago? You were never an atheist, you were always a believer, you just didn't want to call that god a God. That way of believing is far more real, normal and healthy, then the one where you give your god a name and you join an organization that is suppose to represent your God. So Christian or not, you are still searching your faith...


The problem is a few months ago I was denying what I truly believe; that is that God exists and Jesus Christ was the Son of God. Can you help being an atheist? Then how am I supposed to help being a Christian? Undecided
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05-11-2012, 06:55 AM
RE: I am a Christian--again
(04-11-2012 11:37 PM)Egor Wrote:  
(04-11-2012 11:23 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  I would say at this point in time that Veridicanism is the philosophy of following the truth wherever it leads.

Veridical: True

-an: follower of

-ism: Philosophy of

Veridicanism: The philosophy of following that which is true.

I suppose in addition to following the truth we consider Jesus Christ to be the truth.

1) How do you determine what is "true"?

2) The "holy spirit" does not exist. This is demonstrable through evidence, as well as through the LACK of evidence to back up its existence. With that being the case, you're now following something that is demonstrably false; claiming it to be true. This defeats the entire purpose of your self-entitled "Veridicanism".

3) What "you consider" true is irrelevant to what IS true. Which, by the way, brings be back to #1: how do you determine what is "true"?

Everyone seems to be praising this guy because he's so "great" and we're all sitting back while he "flip-flops" from one belief to another, but not many seem to be calling him out on this bullshit.

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05-11-2012, 06:59 AM
RE: I am a Christian--again
Holy Spirit is tao. Praising this guy? Hardly. Flip-flopping? More like evolving. Static thought only benefits dictators.

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05-11-2012, 07:04 AM
RE: I am a Christian--again
(05-11-2012 06:53 AM)Egor Wrote:  The problem is a few months ago I was denying what I truly believe; that is that God exists and Jesus Christ was the Son of God. Can you help being an atheist? Then how am I supposed to help being a Christian? Undecided

By becoming rational, by understanding that your Christian belief is incoherent and untenable.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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05-11-2012, 10:30 AM
RE: I am a Christian--again
(04-11-2012 10:58 PM)Egor Wrote:  
(04-11-2012 07:20 AM)summersun2828 Wrote:  Thank you for your welcome. Acknowledging that I may be partly right about your being superstitious and it being related to your religious beliefs, to me, indicate that you know that you are just going back to being a Christian as a safety blanket.


So?

Quote:It's something that you have found difficult to let go of completely and instead of growing up and standing up, independently, on your own two feet, you've gone running back to grab hold of it again because being without its comfort scares you.


Thanks for describing the water I'm drowning in. But my reasons or motivations have nothing to do with the truth of the matter. Either there is a God and Jesus is his image to human beings, or there isn't. What I feel has nothing to do with that. Drinking Beverage



summersun Wrote:Where's your evidence for saying that "most atheists actually cling to previous Christian ideals"? and that they " secretly hope that God exists and will respect their "rational" approach should they die and face judgment" ? How have you come to that conclusion with regards to "most Atheists" ?



It's just my opinion based on years of dealing with atheists online.



Quote:And may I say that I take umbrage to your saying that, "The results of disbelief in God, in my opinion, is an inevitable decline in moral character and social responsibility, a devolution of the human being back the human animal."

You take whaa...? Hobo

Quote:You are clearly making a sweeping statement here saying that non believers' moral characters are lesser than those of believers, in fact what you are saying is that non believers have regressed to just following their animal instincts.

They would if they actually considered the implications of their beliefs and then continued to hold those same beliefs. Most atheists don't do that. You don't do that.

Quote:That is not so and I struggle to understand where it is you have picked this kind of thinking up from.

Well, there was this one time at band camp...

Quote:Does that mean that, in your mind, if a person is an unbeliever they are more morally debased than a believer due to the virtue of the fact that they just don't believe in your god?

Yep. But most atheists do--they just like to act like they don't

Quote:I know plenty of people who are non believers and let me assure you that they do not live any less of a moral life than anyone else. In fact, they don't need a book to tell them right from wrong or a mythical deity to show them how to behave and interact with their fellow man.


...I'm sorry, did you say they didn't need a book? Oh yes they do. Either they follow the Bible or they follow the Penal Code of the state they live in. Our whole Western sense of justice and morality is based on the Bible and the teachings of Jesus Christ. Besides, doesn't your profile go on at some length about how you grew up as a Jehova's Wittness. Your whole sense of right and wrong comes from that and you know it. Why don't you try being honest for once. I'm honest with you, aren't I? Beat_stick
"Besides, doesn't your profile go on at some length about how you grew up as a Jehova's Wittness. Your whole sense of right and wrong comes from that and you know it. Why don't you try being honest for once. I'm honest with you, aren't I?" Beat_stick
(04-11-2012 10:58 PM)Egor Wrote:  No, my profile doesn't say that I grew up as a JW, (you may want to re-read it) My whole sense of right and wrong comes from me. Regardless what my beliefs have been through the years, Catholic, JW, non-denominational Christian, Atheist, my morals and sense of right and wrong have remained constant. With regards to needing a book or not, what about those civilisations that don't have a written law as such? I'm sure they know not to lie, cheat, commit adultery, murder etc., I don't do what is right just because it's written in any law book or because it's part of a penal code or whatever you like to call it. I do right because I want to do right by my fellow man and live with a clean conscience.
(04-11-2012 10:58 PM)Egor Wrote:  "Yep. But most atheists do--they just like to act like they don't "
(04-11-2012 10:58 PM)Egor Wrote:  Really? I don't think so. Yet again, you're just going on your own opinion. You can't possibly know that "they just like to act like they don't."
(04-11-2012 10:58 PM)Egor Wrote:  Well, there was this one time at band camp...
(04-11-2012 10:58 PM)Egor Wrote:  So you've picked up this kind of experience from an incident "this one time at band camp?"
(04-11-2012 10:58 PM)Egor Wrote:  "They would if they actually considered the implications of their beliefs and then continued to hold those same beliefs. Most atheists don't do that. You don't do that."
(04-11-2012 10:58 PM)Egor Wrote:  Ok, tell me what the implications are and prove them to me.
(04-11-2012 10:58 PM)Egor Wrote:  You take whaa...?
(04-11-2012 10:58 PM)Egor Wrote:  The definition of umbrage:Offense, annoyance;to take umbrage at someone's rudeness
(04-11-2012 10:58 PM)Egor Wrote:  "Either there is a God and Jesus is his image to human beings, or there isn't."
(04-11-2012 10:58 PM)Egor Wrote:  I agree with that statement entirely and it's up to us to seek out evidence to see which of the two is true.
(04-11-2012 10:58 PM)Egor Wrote:  "Thanks for describing the water I'm drowning in."
(04-11-2012 10:58 PM)Egor Wrote:  My post was not meant to, in any way, offend you or belittle what you may be going through. It was just me offering my insight but as a newbie, I know I don't know all the ins and outs of your situation so I may have not got things quite right.
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05-11-2012, 11:13 AM
RE: I am a Christian--again
(05-11-2012 06:55 AM)Misanthropik Wrote:  Everyone seems to be praising this guy because he's so "great" and we're all sitting back while he "flip-flops" from one belief to another, but not many seem to be calling him out on this bullshit.

We're letting him find out for himself. Egor is not someone who's looking to convert other people (not now anyway), he's exploring to find answers himself. So we don't feel that... need to bash his beliefs, because we know that sooner or later he will think about things and maybe flip-flop again. Flip flopping has a bad name but I see it as honesty.

For myself... Egor I would count now as a friend, he's been on the forum probably as long as me. As a friend, I'd feel rude to just pile into him Tongue Not to say let it go, but just... I'll probably be a lot nicer about arguing than if it was some guy spouting hellfire and brimstone at me.

Which is not to say that you should hold back Wink
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05-11-2012, 11:37 AM
RE: I am a Christian--again
(02-11-2012 02:51 PM)Egor Wrote:  All I know is that atheism leads to a corruption of the human mind and character, and I won’t be part of it.
I respect your returning to Christianity. I don't agree with it, but I respect that it's your decision to make. However, I must express my disagreement with the part of your post that I quoted. There are good and bad atheists just as there are good and bad Christians and good and bad people. Atheism neither makes someone good or makes them bad. The concepts of atheism and morality are completely separate. Unlike religion, atheism doesn't teach anything about morality. And one does not have to believe in a religion to have good morals or to remain "uncorrupted". In fact, it is believing in religion that often leads to immorality. There are many things taught in religion that would be obviously immoral even to believers if one removed the "God says it's right" part.

"Religion has caused more misery to all of mankind in every stage of human history than any other single idea." --Madalyn Murray O'Hair
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