I am a Christian--again
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03-11-2012, 12:48 AM
 
RE: I am a Christian--again
(03-11-2012 12:13 AM)Cardinal Smurf Wrote:  What effects exactly?


There is no way to escape the existential worthlessness that comes with atheism. You can stuff it down, ignore it, use all kinds of psychological defenses to cope with it; you can even pretend your life has whatever purpose you assign it, but in the end it doesn't work. Eventually the self-esteem is eroded and replaced with varying degrees of narcissism. But narcissism is inherently anti-social, and projection is innevitable. The worthlessness of the self is projected onto others--quite logically, as it were. It becomes easier to be rude, crude, ill-mannered, and basically anti-social.

Still, the devolution continues; Hedonism becomes the greatest good, again quite logically, and an inappropriate lust for life leads to a kind of cowardice and dishonor, and of course an utter over-reaction to religions. Religions condemn atheism and produce more socially acceptable human beings.

I was asked a question, and I answered it honestly. It's my opinion. I'm not implicating anyone in this group personally. If you find yourself convicted by what I've said, perhaps you should examine why that is. Yes
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03-11-2012, 12:59 AM
 
RE: I am a Christian--again
(03-11-2012 12:21 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Hey, Ed... I'm here for you, buddy. You've been through a lot. Let me know if you need anything.



Thanks, KC. That's very nice of you. It was that book, "The Shack," that sent me over the edge. But maybe it's a good thing. You know, when you empty yourself of all religious notions, distill God down in your mind to the most basic idea you can, it's strange that as it starts to rebuild, it becomes the Father again, and then Jesus starts to make sense again, and then you realize there's a reason why for 2000 years all of Western humanity has mulled over the Gospel, fought over it, challenged it, served it and worshiped God through it.

The fact is, the basic Christian faith is too revelatory to the human mind to give it up. And if you ask me why, I'd say because it's probably true. Confused

So, are you still a Calvanist?
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03-11-2012, 01:08 AM (This post was last modified: 03-11-2012 01:27 AM by Logisch.)
RE: I am a Christian--again
Why do you feel there is existential worthlessness associated with atheism? Why do you feel there is existential worth in something else?

Also, why would it matter either way?

Let's assume someone follows a doctrine, even if it isn't Christianity. There's plenty of ideologies to choose from. Most of them tell you that if you do good things, good things happen to you later, bad things bad, etc.

Let's assume on the opposite "spectrum" there is no doctrine. Life is simply here because your existence is possible. Does it still take away from the life you live?

Did you only feel worth because you felt something gave it that? Or because you gave said thing the power to make you feel that way?

Also, assuming perhaps your existence is only there because it is possible, would adopting a doctrine to cope with that change the facts? Or do the facts dictate what people adopt to cope with them?

I'm not trying to criticize you, simply curious as to why you feel that way. Thus far, through my own observations, most people use religion, regardless of which religion it is, as a coping mechanism most of the time. Or a justification to give themselves purpose. Of course it varies from person to person, but that's a lot of what I see.
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03-11-2012, 01:19 AM (This post was last modified: 03-11-2012 01:27 AM by DLJ.)
RE: I am a Christian--again
(03-11-2012 12:48 AM)Egor Wrote:  ... varying degrees of narcissism. But narcissism is inherently anti-social...

Yup. That sums up my life.

Censored

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03-11-2012, 01:26 AM (This post was last modified: 03-11-2012 06:21 AM by DLJ.)
RE: I am a Christian--again
(02-11-2012 03:02 PM)Janus VI Wrote:  I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent

Y'know what?

I think this passage, more than anything was what started me down the road of skepticism.

I was maybe 10 years old.

I heard the parable of the prodigal son at Sunday school (not for the first time, of course) and thought... that's NOT fucking fair!

The dutiful son who had worked his butt off to do the right thing got fuck all.
The son who pissed it all away on booze and loose women got all the rewards.

Come to think of it... I'm pissing my life away on booze and loose women every day...

... does that make me a christian too?

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03-11-2012, 01:33 AM
RE: I am a Christian--again
(02-11-2012 08:55 PM)Egor Wrote:  ... So, Christ becomes a kind of graphical user interface for God. And that's never going to go away, no matter what. People will always read the Gospels and sense a truth to them.

Interesting.

Please explain to me how this works for all the Hindus and Muslims and others who are interfacing with their god(s) without the christ-GUI.

Cheers.

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03-11-2012, 01:42 AM
RE: I am a Christian--again
(02-11-2012 02:58 PM)Egor Wrote:  ... The idea that you can maintain your character and reject Christ (or the idea of Christ as he's presented in other religions) is also incompatible...

So how does this work for the millions on this planet who haven't even heard of this christ fella of whom you speak?

Do they have no character?

Consider

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03-11-2012, 01:47 AM
RE: I am a Christian--again
Remember this?

Don't make me update it! No

I have spent my life studying Jesus

We are told,
when we start,
there can be
no better use of our time;
no better role model,
no better being.

What can be better than being
saved?
What else matters?

I spent a lifetime studying Jesus
and where has it led?
What is there to be saved
from?

In this life,
what he said
cannot work.

In a next life
these words have no meaning.

If there is hidden meaning?
What does it matter?

If we are too late;
he has returned
and gone?
It is wisdom expired.

I have spent my life studying Jesus
and I just don’t get it.

I can assign meanings to his words,
I can make shit up,
I can pretend.

I can follow someone else who is doing the same
but
in truth,
being is all
that matters
matter is all
that is.


DLJ
(with gratitude to Ed Gordon http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...#pid180096 )

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03-11-2012, 03:55 AM
 
RE: I am a Christian--again
I think I made a lot of false premises there. For instance, if there is a hidden meaning, maybe it matters a great deal that we search for it. Maybe the search is what counts. God and Jesus Christ are mysterious; perhaps the mind required to search for them is exactly the mind we are supposed to evolve into.

I mean, you can't deny that the influence of Jesus Christ has influenced human evolution.
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03-11-2012, 04:10 AM
 
RE: I am a Christian--again
(03-11-2012 01:08 AM)Logisch Wrote:  Why do you feel there is existential worthlessness associated with atheism? Why do you feel there is existential worth in something else?

Also, why would it matter either way?

Let's assume someone follows a doctrine, even if it isn't Christianity. There's plenty of ideologies to choose from. Most of them tell you that if you do good things, good things happen to you later, bad things bad, etc.

Let's assume on the opposite "spectrum" there is no doctrine. Life is simply here because your existence is possible. Does it still take away from the life you live?

Did you only feel worth because you felt something gave it that? Or because you gave said thing the power to make you feel that way?

Also, assuming perhaps your existence is only there because it is possible, would adopting a doctrine to cope with that change the facts? Or do the facts dictate what people adopt to cope with them?

I'm not trying to criticize you, simply curious as to why you feel that way. Thus far, through my own observations, most people use religion, regardless of which religion it is, as a coping mechanism most of the time. Or a justification to give themselves purpose. Of course it varies from person to person, but that's a lot of what I see.


If we have no purpose, then there's no reason to live. We can make up a reason, but that's a bit like buying a black belt online instead of earning it. I find a purposeless life disgraceful. I find living just to be alive dishonorable. But I suppose if all I wanted to do was be a gamer, grow obese, jerk off or find a fuck buddy, smoke weed and take xanax three times a day, then a purposeless life might be desireable. At least I would know my worthless, lazy way of living was no worse than any other way of spending a lifetime. Hell (pun intended), I might look forward to disolving after death if I spent a worthless, purposeless life on this planet. Dodgy
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