I am a Christian
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04-03-2016, 12:50 PM
RE: I am a Christian
(04-03-2016 08:03 AM)Rahn127 Wrote:  Void - I'm hoping you've heard of go-pro cameras. They are small body cams that people use for a variety of reasons, sports mostly.

Imagine if you will that you had a belief that an invisible, intangible, go-pro camera hovered above your head and recorded everything around you for your entire life.

People who lacked this belief would be the atheists in my analogy.

Atheists don't have religious beliefs.
We don't have them.

You don't have a belief in Odin
Neither do we.
You don't have a belief in Zeus.
Neither do we.
You don't have a belief in 997 other gods.
Which makes you 99.9 % atheist.

Your belief in a god is your brain imagining that something is there, when it's really not.

People have the ability to imagine just about anything.
We can imagine that the lottery ticket in our pocket is the big winner. We can tell our friends and family that we struck it rich, that we won. We can make plans for the day when all that money comes rolling in.

We can go celebrate with hundreds of millions of people around the world who also believe that they too have the winning lottery ticket in their pocket.

Atheists do not have the winning lottery ticket delusion.
Atheists ask those people - "Can I see this winning lottery ticket you've been talking about for years ?"

Theists reply -"You have to have faith in order to see it."
Atheist -"You mean, I have to use my imagination, because it's imaginary, as in, not real, not tangible, not visible. Your lifetime of believing that you have a winning lottery ticket makes you feel good, but for me, your belief is just annoying, as well as irrational. "

Can you comprehend this analogy ?
Cause it's spot on.


i make the claim that God is real, thereby creating a belief system that says all the other gods are either false, or just not all powerful. maybe a form of Zeus does exist, maybe its a powerful angel who likes to be worshiped and tended to use lightning, maybe its some other being that we have limited knowledge on. id prefer to think he does not exist for the most part,
but when i become atheistic in that regard, i would claim he does not exist (at least not like the Greeks thought) and i have made a claim that i cant back up. its a belief and a system both.

if i say that i don't know if he exists, then i am agnostic, if i say i do know, then i am atheist. if i say both i don't know and i know he doesn't exist, that makes me a bit crazy. but that's the meaning of combining the words agnostic atheist.

I dont believe in some invisible go-pro, i dont believe in an invisible intangible God. i believe in a God who is fully tangible, and simply resides in what is mostly easily described as an extra dimension. (dimensions are things such as length, width, height, time, weight, gravity, and radioactivity).

i don't go around carrying it like an idiot with a lottery ticket claiming ive won the lottery, i simply believe that there is a God out there or else the men who created the lottery by all evidence of logic, should not exist right now. no, i am not yet asserting my system of belief that led me to this conclusion, and i might eventually. but not now.

the word atheist asserts there is no God, not that one doesnt know if there is a god. i think that many people here are not atheist at all. they are just agnostic. well thats according to the arguments, the reason for arguing makes me think many atheists pretending to be agnostic to win the argument.
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04-03-2016, 12:53 PM
RE: I am a Christian
(04-03-2016 08:16 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  
Quote:If you state there is, or you state there isn't, either way its a belief system (that there is or there isn't a god)
Wrong again. Is not believing in Leprechauns a belief systsm? A-leprechaunism?
yes, yes it is. its part of a belief system that does not believe in leprechauns.
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04-03-2016, 12:56 PM
RE: I am a Christian
(04-03-2016 12:53 PM)VoidAndNull Wrote:  
(04-03-2016 08:16 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  Wrong again. Is not believing in Leprechauns a belief systsm? A-leprechaunism?
yes, yes it is. its part of a belief system that does not believe in leprechauns.

Right then, so you're an Aleprechanist then?

Oh, and while's you're at it, here's a not exhaustive list of other gods you are atheistic about.


[Image: other_gods.png]


Recognizing that all deities, yours included, have failed to meet their burden of proof doesn't require a belief system.

Do you care to describe yourself as an Azeusis while you're at it, or can you stop acting like an idiot and save us all a lot of time?

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04-03-2016, 12:57 PM
RE: I am a Christian
(04-03-2016 12:34 PM)VoidAndNull Wrote:  
(03-03-2016 10:16 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Sometimes the first step is to find out where the boundaries of someone's comfort zone are. A lot of Christians (and theists in general) have very narrow boundaries. For those people, step 2 is to make them uncomfortable in the hope that they will actually think about what is being said. A lot of times they don't and simply shut down or block you or get pissed off.

One could try and approach it in a less abrasive way, but you know what? That method doesn't tend to work any better to generate meaningful conversation with most theists. Why? Because most of them don't tend to want to think about their beliefs in any way even remotely similar to how we view them. Most theists want their religious beliefs validated by us in some way, which seems to be the reason that a lot of them engage in debates with atheists.


For instance, why are you here? What purpose do you see in conversations with atheists about your religious beliefs? What purpose do you see in conversations about conversations between atheists and theists?

Despite not being able to respond to all the comments in this thread, i am reading all of them. i am observing some people who have some desire to share their beliefs, some who are not trying to do anything that achieve a victorious "i stumped that guy" feeling, and some who are people.

i am most interested in the people, the ones who intellect is interesting, but the hearts is more interesting. the ones that actually care about others, are the ones worth listening to. in my opinion.

I am here to either convince someone that christianity is not what they thought hopefully for the better, to learn something about the atheistic viewpoints, or to learn something in general.

As the saying goes, if you want to know anything about christianity, ask an atheist.

Don't underestimate these guys here. They are atheists, yes - but for a reason. Some are ex-christians because they considered christianity long and hard and some are atheist because they studied either science or religion.

A lot of christians that I've met can't hold a candle to these guys. They've forgotten more about christianity than most christians will ever know.

You've already shown that you don't understand physics. You don't understand what an atheist is. You also tell us how to define atheism.

I'd try asking some intelligent questions and try getting a handle on us first.

Just me thoughts.

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04-03-2016, 12:57 PM
RE: I am a Christian
(04-03-2016 12:23 PM)VoidAndNull Wrote:  
(04-03-2016 06:33 AM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  1. You do not choose your beliefs. Your beliefs are a result of the information and ideas in your mind. You are convinced that an idea is true. You cannot decide what you believe.

This is a perplexing and interesting thought to me, i read this in this post and had to stop to respond. I think that you do choose beliefs because you choose which information and ideas to accept as rational in your mind.

I get that you are convinced by maybe whoever is telling you the information. but i cant get over the idea that your decision of what you want to believe actually creates the ideas, and puts blinders on you from the information in your head. not the other way around. that's just my view, i cant prove it anymore than i can prove my neurons firing over the internet, but it may just be correct.

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04-03-2016, 01:00 PM
RE: I am a Christian
(04-03-2016 12:50 PM)VoidAndNull Wrote:  i make the claim that God is real, thereby creating a belief system that says all the other gods are either false, or just not all powerful.

What is the evidence to support that claim?

Quote:maybe a form of Zeus does exist, maybe its a powerful angel who likes to be worshiped and tended to use lightning, maybe its some other being that we have limited knowledge on. id prefer to think he does not exist for the most part,
but when i become atheistic in that regard, i would claim he does not exist (at least not like the Greeks thought) and i have made a claim that i cant back up. its a belief and a system both.

You choose to believe something for which there is no evidence. Aren't you the least bit embarrassed? Consider

Quote:if i say that i don't know if he exists, then i am agnostic, if i say i do know, then i am atheist. if i say both i don't know and i know he doesn't exist, that makes me a bit crazy. but that's the meaning of combining the words agnostic atheist.

This has been explained to you more than once. Go back and read.

atheist = without a belief in gods. It is not a claim, it is a rejection of an unevidenced claim.

Quote:I dont believe in some invisible go-pro, i dont believe in an invisible intangible God. i believe in a God who is fully tangible, and simply resides in what is mostly easily described as an extra dimension. (dimensions are things such as length, width, height, time, weight, gravity, and radioactivity).

You do not understand what a dimension is.

Weight, gravity, and radioactivity are not dimensions. Facepalm

Quote:i don't go around carrying it like an idiot with a lottery ticket claiming ive won the lottery, i simply believe that there is a God out there or else the men who created the lottery by all evidence of logic, should not exist right now.

What does that mean?

Quote:no, i am not yet asserting my system of belief that led me to this conclusion, and i might eventually. but not now.

What conclusion?

Quote:the word atheist asserts there is no God,

No, it does not.

Quote:not that one doesnt know if there is a god.

No, tha is agnosticism.

Quote:i think that many people here are not atheist at all. they are just agnostic. well thats according to the arguments, the reason for arguing makes me think many atheists pretending to be agnostic to win the argument.

Most here are agnostic atheists.

[Image: agnostic_chart.png?w=474&h=458]

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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04-03-2016, 01:00 PM
RE: I am a Christian
(04-03-2016 12:50 PM)VoidAndNull Wrote:  [quote='Rahn127' pid='956136' dateline='1457100226'] i believe in a God who is fully tangible, and simply resides in what is mostly easily described as an extra dimension.

And you know this because?

What exactly is the 'radioactivity dimension'?

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04-03-2016, 01:00 PM (This post was last modified: 04-03-2016 01:09 PM by adey67.)
RE: I am a Christian
Prepositional apologetics are the saddest of all I had hopes for meaningful dialogue with you but clearly that's not possible as all you want is to throw vailed insults and lame assertions to those who throw up inconvenient truths to you. You are nothing new to us it is laughable that you thought you could come here and save us all lol
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04-03-2016, 01:08 PM
RE: I am a Christian
(04-03-2016 12:50 PM)VoidAndNull Wrote:  i make the claim that God is real, thereby creating a belief system that says all the other gods are either false, or just not all powerful.

Ok. Show us some scientific evidence to justify that belief.

(04-03-2016 12:50 PM)VoidAndNull Wrote:  but when i become atheistic in that regard, i would claim he does not exist (at least not like the Greeks thought) and i have made a claim that i cant back up. its a belief and a system both.

This is a logical fallacy called "Shifting the burden of proof". You made the claim. You provide the evidence.


(04-03-2016 12:50 PM)VoidAndNull Wrote:  i believe in a God who is fully tangible, and simply resides in what is mostly easily described as an extra dimension.

Easily described is correct:
[Image: free-poster-jscy865tad-IMAGINATION_zpsjkm5ff11.jpg]

(04-03-2016 12:50 PM)VoidAndNull Wrote:  the word atheist asserts there is no God, not that one doesnt know if there is a god. i think that many people here are not atheist at all. they are just agnostic. well thats according to the arguments, the reason for arguing makes me think many atheists pretending to be agnostic to win the argument.
You're checking all the boxes. Atheists hate god, we're not really atheists, we choose not to believe, shifting the burden of proof.

There's a few more standard arguments you haven't hit yet. Keep trying! Thumbsup



Oh, and you still haven't answered my question about the dead children.

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04-03-2016, 01:09 PM
RE: I am a Christian
(04-03-2016 08:16 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  
Quote:the word atheism ... comes from a- meaning without theos, or god.
Sorry, but you dont get to just re-define the term "atheism" at will (irrespective of literal translation). At least not for the rest of mankind.


May i ask a final question: What would change your mind about the existence of your/a/any deity?

i don't think I am the one redefining atheism to suit myself, i feel like whoever is arguing from logic and claiming to be be an atheist is attempting to do that, particularly those who are claiming to to be atheists who don't know if there is a God. (who are not atheist at all, but agnostic.) but to say this is not why i wanted to reply to you.


to answer this question let me start, this is a great question.

what would it take? It would take me, personally looking around and seeing a logical explanation that i can comprehend for humans to have gotten to the point we are at. I love to write scripts, and AI is an interesting concept to me. to make a real AI, i would need to created a large amount of code that is capable of processing, storing and modifying information. before i can do that, i would need to come up with subroutines to deal with a lot of garbage information. it can take me hours to fine tune a code to do something as simple as that, it would take me a year to make just that subroutine if i set my mind to doing it well enough to compare to what our dna does.

but then, if i wanted to make the code able to take parts of itself, recombine with another code and then copy its program spreading itself, it would be beyond my ability given 30,000 years of working on it. i guess i could take that number and multiply it by infinity and maybe just maybe i could hope all this code will one day fall into place, but that would be silly.

so what would it take? it would take me seeing a likely explanation, not an unlikely one(such as we haven't got one so infinite time covers it), that humans could have gotten to where we are today. that would be the core of it. however, i have studied enough of biblical prophesy to see some of it come true in recent years. i would need to be convinced that of the proof i have seen for god, all of it was a fluke and my misunderstanding.

hmm what else. i would need to actually like the ideas that replaced it for me to honestly consider the argument, some of this is based in rationality, while a small amount is emotion. i am a largely logical person, but this is still what it would take.
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