I am an Ex-Mormon.
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14-03-2015, 05:20 PM
RE: I am an Ex-Mormon.
(13-03-2015 03:07 AM)morondog Wrote:  Aren't Mormons really big on closing you out of the community if you reject their teachings? A bit like JWs IIRC? can see why that'd get you down... Talk to us brother man...

You are partially right. In all of my experience within the church and living within its sphere of influence, I have not yet noticed any sanctioned shunning of the kind that is absolutely the case in Jehovah's Witnesses.

On the other hand, it is practical and social reality within church communities that the expulsion of apostate family members from homes and relationships is common. This is especially true when those in the faith fear the influence of apostates on their children.

Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness.

-Karl Marx
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14-03-2015, 07:21 PM
RE: I am an Ex-Mormon.
(14-03-2015 05:20 PM)Dark Phoenix Wrote:  ... This is especially true when those in the faith fear the influence of apostates on their children.

My guess is that many or most atheist/secular parents would not restrict their childrens' access to religious people, writings, media presentations, church, etc. knowing that the best bullshit disinfectant is wide exposure to multiple perspectives. A religious parent censoring what their children can experience does a lot more harm.

It also betrays a lack of confidence in the veracity of their own belief, that they fear exposure to contrary perspective could prove persuasive.

I have to say I look forward to a society in which the biological parent's ideas of what constitutes the best education for children, including their own, is given the LEAST priority.
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14-03-2015, 10:47 PM
RE: I am an Ex-Mormon.
Must be hell living in Provo. All those fake smiles and robotic cookie cutter facades. The sheer arrogance of the religion is amazing. Do they even teach humility? I do have a couple Mormon friends, so I know there is goodness among them. I feel sympathy for them.
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15-03-2015, 08:16 PM
RE: I am an Ex-Mormon.
(13-03-2015 05:53 PM)Ocean theRAPIST Wrote:  I'm an ex Mormon From Southern California. I always had my doubts growing up. I was kicked out of my parents home at 18 and they moved to the promised land (utah) when I was 20. I am now 32. A few months ago I confronted my dad about all the problems with the book of Mormon and Joseph Smith. He called me a couple weeks ago telling me I'm confused and he wants to send me a book of Mormon and to open my heart to it blah blah blah.

Hello there. Nice to meet someone here with my own general perspective.

I am sorry to hear that you were kicked out of your home. I was one of those lucky enough to make my exit from home before leaving the church. It breaks my heart sometimes to hear some of the stories though.

I relate to what you say about your father. The two main responses I get from believing Mormons are 1) personal testimony associated with inner spirituality or 2) personal testimony associated with reading the Book of Mormon. To the average person, or even some Mormons, they would likely reject the notion of one's feelings determining fact from fiction as absurd. However, ask the average Mormon about his "testimony" and you will hear, practically without fail, about how reading the Book of Mormon gave him warm fuzzies and happy tears.

Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness.

-Karl Marx
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15-03-2015, 08:29 PM
RE: I am an Ex-Mormon.
Dear everyone who has posted or plans to post on my thread here,

I want you to know that I will respond and/or acknowledge your posts. My schedule is nuts and I have limited time periods in which to post responses. (Which really sucks because I enjoy doing it alot. It really lights up my day.)

Some of you have asked some questions that I don't have a short answer to, or in one or two cases, any answer at all. I enjoy the challenge of research and promise to get back to you.

Unfogged, thank you for your link to Dogma Debate Radio. I am listening to it and will post my thoughts soon.

Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness.

-Karl Marx
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15-03-2015, 10:24 PM
RE: I am an Ex-Mormon.
(15-03-2015 08:16 PM)Dark Phoenix Wrote:  
(13-03-2015 05:53 PM)Ocean theRAPIST Wrote:  I'm an ex Mormon From Southern California. I always had my doubts growing up. I was kicked out of my parents home at 18 and they moved to the promised land (utah) when I was 20. I am now 32. A few months ago I confronted my dad about all the problems with the book of Mormon and Joseph Smith. He called me a couple weeks ago telling me I'm confused and he wants to send me a book of Mormon and to open my heart to it blah blah blah.

Hello there. Nice to meet someone here with my own general perspective.

I am sorry to hear that you were kicked out of your home. I was one of those lucky enough to make my exit from home before leaving the church. It breaks my heart sometimes to hear some of the stories though.

I relate to what you say about your father. The two main responses I get from believing Mormons are 1) personal testimony associated with inner spirituality or 2) personal testimony associated with reading the Book of Mormon. To the average person, or even some Mormons, they would likely reject the notion of one's feelings determining fact from fiction as absurd. However, ask the average Mormon about his "testimony" and you will hear, practically without fail, about how reading the Book of Mormon gave him warm fuzzies and happy tears.

That's basically it. I sent him a link to read "A letter to a CES Director", I kinda tricked him in to reading it and he could not dispute any of it. All he said was that "all the reason in the world couldn't change his mind about the church" and that it's the "only true church". I tried telling him about how JS was a fake treasure hunter and he denied it and said that JS just got caught up in it and wasn't the leader and he was just a good farm boy, even though all the outside sources say otherwise and he pleaded guilty to it.

I honestly wasn't ever going to say anything to him about it but, I couldn't stand hearing everytime he calls me about how native Americans are actually Israeli and other false Mormon history. At least now when we talk he knows where I stand.

I don't understand how this religion is still around. I can see how others have survived but, there is nothing of any historical truth to the book of Mormon.
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16-03-2015, 11:21 AM
RE: I am an Ex-Mormon.
(14-03-2015 07:52 AM)The Organic Chemist Wrote:  1) the coffee thing? I don't get it. I have heard that you also can't drink hot chocolate. Is that for the same reason?

I suspect you fail to see the reason behind the ban because a sensible person like yourself would require an explanation of how coffee must necessarily be avoided. The ban has no basis in such a reasonable explanation. It is based upon a section of The Doctrine and Covenants (One of the four Mormon holy books which claims to be an account of all "modern" revelations from god to his modern day prophets.) which is referred to as "The Word of Wisdom".

The 89th such section claims to be an account of a revelation given to Joseph Smith on February 27th 1833. To understand the context, it is important to know what happened the previous day. It was spent engaged in what was then called "The School of the Prophets". It was essentially a small class in Mormon theology, biblical languages, and scripture mastery that was held on the second floor of a local business. Male priesthood holders attended regularly, especially leaders in the faith, to be taught by each other. These men loved their tobacco, as was common in their day, and soon filled the room with smoke from their pipes and cigarettes. Many of them enjoyed chew instead, spitting the tobacco on the floor of the schoolroom at their leisure.

After the class of February the 26th the tobacco spitting habits of the brethren had stained a sizable portion of the floorboards which Joseph's wife Emma Smith was required to scrub. It took her and her husband the majority of the night to make them clean again. This long night of raw hands and sore fingers was the supposed inspiration for "The Word of Wisdom". Joseph claimed to have received the revelation after asking the Lord if these habits were good for the brethren.

Verse 9 of that supposed revelation says "And again, hot drinks are not for the body or belly."

On the church's website the following is offered as an explanation of the ban on coffee. It immediately follows the above scripture reference.

"latter-day prophets have taught that the term “hot drinks,” as written in this verse, refers to tea and coffee"

According to the church leader's interpretation of the scripture, the temperature of the drink is not a factor at all, only what type of drink it is. Hot chocolate would certainly qualify literally given what the verse says, but it doesn't fit the interpretation selected by the church, therefore it is not officially banned. I suppose you might find a literalist somewhere who avoids hot chocolate anyway, but I have never once met any Mormon who did so.

Now that I have given you the official explanation and context, I have my own thoughts on all this.

It makes sense to me for cults to ban physical substances that have desirable properties. These things have long been more attractive to people, especially the young, than going to church and obeying the preachers, so they have every self interested reason to condemn them as sins. Those seeking total control the behavior of other people must demonize anything powerful enough to distract the victim from their influence.

The Mormon church, like so many other faiths, claims to be the exclusive path to true human happiness. Of course they ban sex, alcohol, drugs, and other pleasures. Pleasurable human experiences undertaken with friends and lovers might amount to happiness, and they can't have that! If they allowed these things, they would not be able to maintain their lies and illusions about what makes human beings happy.

This particular issue is a matter of the blind leading the blind. There are many members who, like myself, were raised with these prohibitions. They can have no insight into these relevant pleasures and experiences. There are many other members who have stayed briefly into "sin" who have had less than comfortable experiences with drugs, sex, and alcohol due directly to their puritanical attitudes and upbringings. Plainly said, who can really enjoy sex the first time after being told every day of your life that it is an evil act morally akin to murder?

Neither of these two groups really ever had a chance to explore the world and discover life for themselves, yet they are often the ones preaching from the pulpit and teaching in the classrooms at church. It reminds me of the way anti-science Christians who don't understand science preach against it in their churches. No one knows what they are talking about, but that doesn't stop the talking, or the people listening from believing what they hear is true. The second generation of the blind feel smug and savvy learning from the people who have "been there" while they lazily confirm their already believed conclusions, which were imposed upon them by a self proclaimed exclusive authority to begin with.

The hold over the members is so strong, that something as innocent as coffee can actually amount to a big deal. Mormons don't avoid coffee because they get health benefits from their abstinence. They do it because god said so, and they believe that the words of their leaders are as good as if god spoke out of heaven. If that isn't some powerful indoctrination, I don't know what else would qualify. This is why it is so hard to reach these people, and why it breaks my heart for them.

Even if I didn't have my experience and observation to help me figure this out, the Word of Wisdom still wouldn't make sense.

1)The interpretation of The Word of Wisdom is inconsistent. Interpreting "hot drinks" to mean "Tea and Coffee" is ridiculous to me on its face. If interpretation can be so broad as that, it is possible to interpret any statement to mean something completely different than what is written. This is exactly the kind of scriptural confusion that the Mormons criticize in mainstream Christianity. They consider it a sign of false religion, and yet here they are re-interpreting passages of their own "modern" scripture and causing the same kind of confusion. As with so many other Mormon issues, one is entitled to ask "Why is it that the direct line you claim to have doesn't seem to help you get it right the first time?"

Arbitrarily concocted interpretations like this have ridiculous consequences. If you haven't heard, it is common for Mormons to refuse to drink all caffeinated beverages, not just tea and coffee. This is a product of moderate thinkers who reason that the bans on these things must be for the purpose of avoiding harmful addictions. Caffeine is the primary addictive ingredient in coffee and tea, therefore they should avoid caffeine.

In my home, drinking a coke was a punishable offence. Just let that concept sit in your grey matter for a minute or two.

The church leaders do not support this grass roots interpretation, but they do practically nothing to clarify the issue. On the contrary, they allow it to spread and become popular on purpose. How could I possibly know that? On the campus of Brigham Young University, no caffeinated beverages of any kind are sold, not even soda. Church leaders who run that university know exactly what they are doing. They do nothing to stop it because it only strengthens their control over the members. Besides, they members invented their excuse for them.

2) The application of The Word of Wisdom is inconsistent, and sometimes downright hypocritical.

Certain parts of The Word of Wisdom get a lot of attention. However, there are a few other parts worth a closer look.

"That inasmuch as any man drinketh wine or strong drink among you, behold it is not good, neither meet in the sight of your Father, only in assembling yourselves together to offer up your sacraments before him. And, behold, this should be wine, yea, pure wine of the grape of the vine, of your own make. And, again, strong drinks are not for the belly, but for the washing of your bodies."

Mormons certainly ban the use of alcohol as instructed here, but they don't use wine in their sacrament anymore. They use water. They can always claim a new revelation, which is their go-to explanation far too often, but that only makes their cherry picking more obvious and suspicious. Also, who washes with alcohol?

Maybe that isn't clear cut enough for you. Well, you've heard about alchohol, drugs, coffee and tea. But, have you heard about not eating meat?

"Yea, flesh also of beasts and of the fowls of the air, I, the Lord, have ordained for the use of man with thanksgiving; nevertheless they are to be used sparingly; And it is pleasing unto me that they should not be used, only in times of winter, or of cold, or famine. All grain is ordained for the use of man and of beasts, to be the staff of life, not only for man but for the beasts of the field, and the fowls of heaven, and all wild animals that run or creep on the earth; And these hath God made for the use of man only in times of famine and excess of hunger."

I live in the United States, the king of all things fast food. The church doesn't say anything about all the meat we eat. I lived in a fundamentalist home and we ate burgers like everybody else. It's all just too stupid and hypocritical to take seriously.

Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness.

-Karl Marx
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16-03-2015, 11:47 AM
RE: I am an Ex-Mormon.
(13-03-2015 01:38 AM)DLJ Wrote:  
(12-03-2015 08:25 PM)Dark Phoenix Wrote:  ...
I am an Ex-Mormon.
...

But you have beautiful plumage.

Big Grin

It's an entrepreneurial opportunity. If I lived there, I'd open an "off lander" realty office, and sell the planets that the deconverted ex-Mormons won't be getting from Jebus when they die. Maybe they can up-grade ? RolleyesThumbsup

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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16-03-2015, 12:36 PM
RE: I am an Ex-Mormon.
(12-03-2015 08:25 PM)Dark Phoenix Wrote:  Hello everyone. Like the title says, I am an Ex-Mormon.

I live right in the heart of Mormonville, Provo Utah. For those of you who are not familiar with the area, it is literally 97% Mormon and is the hometown of Brigham Young University and the mormon Missionary Training Center.

Normally I have a point I want to make with my posts, but today I am just feeling a little down. If anyone is willing to indulge me, I would like to discuss some of the goings on in my community that are associated with Mormons leaving the church.

I am not posting this in Personal Issues and Support category because I want to take comments from all comers. If you are an Ex-Mormon I would love to hear from you. It would do me some good to talk about what it is like with people who know. If you are a Mormon who is still active in the church, or maybe just still affiliated with it in some way, I would be interested in learning about your perspective on people leaving the church. As always I enjoy comments and questions from everyone else. Love the community here on TTA.

Anybody interested?

All labels aside, anywhere in the world one might live, if they live in a very deep rooted community, it is hard for them to be open or leave and in many cases impossible without threat of arrest or violence.

It would not matter even if you went from one religion to another, especially in the family unit, in many places you are expected to follow a script and if you do not you will find trouble.

But I am curious as to how many people now that you have left know? Or is this something you are keeping on the QT for the most part? If you can find local groups for atheists or X Mormons that's great. Still seems like a bit of an Island out there for non Mormons in any case.

For many, and I am one of them, I have no local group worth traveling to, all too far away. My Skype and websites on line are really all I have as I live in a red state myself and a rural area on the east cost.

But you are not alone in any case. You can always find a godless ear in our social media age.

Poetry by Brian37(poems by an atheist) Also on Facebook as BrianJames Rational Poet and Twitter Brianrrs37
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16-03-2015, 12:38 PM
RE: I am an Ex-Mormon.
Why is Mormonism still around? Tight grouping, social pressure, just like any other. But mostly all religions spread through marketing, gullibility and even force.

Poetry by Brian37(poems by an atheist) Also on Facebook as BrianJames Rational Poet and Twitter Brianrrs37
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