I am holier than thou
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17-09-2013, 11:06 AM
RE: I am holier than thou
(17-09-2013 11:04 AM)excubitor Wrote:  
(17-09-2013 10:48 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  I didn't say 'sex', did I?
What, are you saying homosexuals aren't having sex.

If you are equating that love with sex, then the same must be said for heterosexual love. That it's just sex.

You don't see your intellectual dishonesty?

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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17-09-2013, 11:13 AM
RE: I am holier than thou
(17-09-2013 10:56 AM)excubitor Wrote:  
(17-09-2013 10:32 AM)NoSkyDaddy Wrote:  Hi excubitor,
There is a stark contrast between your self deprecating descriptions of yourself and the spirit of your comments.

This type of claim, to know the minds and hearts of other people, is not only beyond human capabilities, but is arrogance of he highest order. Your comments blatantly reveal you as a presuppositionalist. You have accepted the Bible at face value without question as fact, and you bend the facts to fit your predetermined conclusion.
As atheists, our minds do not work that way. Rather than starting with a conclusion, we start with information. Then we evaluate whether it is true or not. Finally we use information that is demonstrably true to gain an understanding of reality. When biblical claims are evaluated as information, it fails to be compelling due to the lack of supporting evidence. We truly in our heart of hearts, disbelieve.
I concede that as my starting precept I believe by faith that God is real and true, that he came to earth as Jesus Christ born of a virgin. He died and was buried, was resurrected into new life and ascended to the Father. I believe in the holy catholic church and her teachings and the scriptures she delivered to us which teach that God made heaven and earth in six days and that there was a cataclysmic global flood. These presuppositions are a framework of belief borne of faith from the divine revelation of God around which all "evidences" established by the physical senses must be subject.
This is my boast and the great power that I have over you all, because you only trust what you can see, feel, touch, taste, smell, measure and study.

No, this is your great weakness. You are intellectually disabled by having belief in something for which there is no evidence. Your argument applies to any and every religion that exists or could exist. Faith leads to belief in any damn-fool idea.

Quote:
As a result of putting such high and unwarranted value on physical evidences you very quickly throw away divine revelation the minute you think that the physical evidence contradicts it. Unfortunately you have not factored in the power of deceit by Satan and liars who are able to manipulate your senses so that you make errors in judgement and are led astray.
There have been many such frauds in science which have resulted in people believing lies for decades until the peer review system kicks in.
Well i am not going to put my faith in sciences peer review system to uncover the lies. I am going to put my faith in the living God who created me and who gave me his church to guide, shelter and feed me.

I will make no apology and happily boast of my presuppositions that God is almighty, omnipotent and eternal, knowing all things from the beginning to the end, small and great.

There is no evidence that divine revelation exists except as delusion. There is a great deal of evidence that shows how such delusions come about through brain function and dysfunction, e.g. temporal lobe epilepsy.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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17-09-2013, 11:15 AM
RE: I am holier than thou
(17-09-2013 10:56 AM)excubitor Wrote:  ...
Jesus Christ born of a virgin
He ... was ... resurrected
God made heaven and earth in six days
cataclysmic global flood.

So you are saying that you believe these things despite the evidence to the contrary.

Not sure what to say about that.

I couldn't be more disappointed in you unless you told me that you think the earth is flat and the sun and the stars revolve around it. Laughat Just teasing.

(17-09-2013 10:56 AM)excubitor Wrote:  ...
throw away divine revelation the minute you think that the physical evidence contradicts it.
...

Yup, that's best practice which is btw what I teach for a living... business decisions are made by using process and facts not hearsay and rumour.
DLJ's best practice lesson 101.

Smile

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17-09-2013, 11:15 AM
RE: I am holier than thou
(17-09-2013 10:57 AM)kim Wrote:  For some(many), atheism is the rejection of a belief which has been acquired through surrounding influences. For others, atheism is just a label which fits, since no belief was ever fostered and most likely never acquired; it is simply original non-belief. Both of these definitions are sincere and may or may not carry a degree of militancy with which to defend respective views.

Very often, an individual who had to fight against their own acceptance of surrounding influences, may exhibit outward appearances of militancy. It's understandable. Those of us who never acquired belief initially wonder what the fuss must be about… until we learn about the exploitation of authoritative power which surrounds belief and the abuse dispensed by such authority. This is how and why militant atheism is brought to the forefront; it is unconscionable to stand idle with the knowledge that further abuse could be curtailed by raising awareness.

If theists are so troubled by the militancy of atheist... then one solution might be to stop indoctrinating children to believe. Drinking Beverage
Well I understand that the word indoctrination has a negative connotation. So perhaps I will retract my statement that I indoctrinate my children. What I mean actually quite simply is that I teach my children the Christian faith, how, why and what to believe.
Every good parent teaches their children. Even atheists teach their children what they believe will serve them well to learn as they grow up. I think it was DHL that offered the somewhat idealistic notion that he was taught how to think not what to think. Really that is not practical. I doubt that parents sit down beside the cradle and worry themselves to figure out whether they are indoctrinating their children with what to think instead of educating them how to think. The notion is completely impractical. Nobody does this. It is a platitude which sounds good. Atheists who lobby governments to ban ID being taught in school are robbing students the opportunity to be presented with alternative views. This of course is constraining an opportunity to learn how to think and choose between alternative views. This is because atheists want to indoctrinate students into evolutionism.

The scripture says "Train up a child in the way he should go and when he is old he will not depart from it"
The reason so many young people are militant and lacking discipline and direction is because their fathers have neglected them and have not taught them what to think and have not taught them how to think.
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17-09-2013, 11:20 AM
RE: I am holier than thou
The scripture says "Train up a child in the way he should go and when he is old he will not depart from it"

This is a BS statement, unless you also suppress all free will. Stepford kids for Christ.

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17-09-2013, 11:22 AM
RE: I am holier than thou
(17-09-2013 11:06 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(17-09-2013 11:04 AM)excubitor Wrote:  What, are you saying homosexuals aren't having sex.

If you are equating that love with sex, then the same must be said for heterosexual love. That it's just sex.

You don't see your intellectual dishonesty?
Of course not. sex in marriage is a legitimate expression of love. Sex outside of marriage whether homosexual or heterosexual is not an expression of love at all but is selfish lust which is destructive to both parties.
Love between men and men is only pure and true if it is not expressed in a lustful sexual act.
Love between women and women is only pure and true if it is not expressed in a lustful sexual act.
Love between men and women who are not married is only pure if it is not expressed in a lustful sexual act.

According to the teachings of the Catholic Church which alone has the authority to proclaim what is true, sexual love can only be expressed in marriage when the sexual act is open to the conception of children.
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17-09-2013, 11:23 AM
RE: I am holier than thou
(17-09-2013 11:15 AM)excubitor Wrote:  
(17-09-2013 10:57 AM)kim Wrote:  For some(many), atheism is the rejection of a belief which has been acquired through surrounding influences. For others, atheism is just a label which fits, since no belief was ever fostered and most likely never acquired; it is simply original non-belief. Both of these definitions are sincere and may or may not carry a degree of militancy with which to defend respective views.

Very often, an individual who had to fight against their own acceptance of surrounding influences, may exhibit outward appearances of militancy. It's understandable. Those of us who never acquired belief initially wonder what the fuss must be about… until we learn about the exploitation of authoritative power which surrounds belief and the abuse dispensed by such authority. This is how and why militant atheism is brought to the forefront; it is unconscionable to stand idle with the knowledge that further abuse could be curtailed by raising awareness.

If theists are so troubled by the militancy of atheist... then one solution might be to stop indoctrinating children to believe. Drinking Beverage
Well I understand that the word indoctrination has a negative connotation. So perhaps I will retract my statement that I indoctrinate my children. What I mean actually quite simply is that I teach my children the Christian faith, how, why and what to believe.
Every good parent teaches their children. Even atheists teach their children what they believe will serve them well to learn as they grow up. I think it was DHL that offered the somewhat idealistic notion that he was taught how to think not what to think. Really that is not practical. I doubt that parents sit down beside the cradle and worry themselves to figure out whether they are indoctrinating their children with what to think instead of educating them how to think. The notion is completely impractical. Nobody does this. It is a platitude which sounds good. Atheists who lobby governments to ban ID being taught in school are robbing students the opportunity to be presented with alternative views. This of course is constraining an opportunity to learn how to think and choose between alternative views. This is because atheists want to indoctrinate students into evolutionism.

The scripture says "Train up a child in the way he should go and when he is old he will not depart from it"
The reason so many young people are militant and lacking discipline and direction is because their fathers have neglected them and have not taught them what to think and have not taught them how to think.

Your ignorance is displayed for all to see. Many people bring up their children teaching them thinking skills.
You seem to find that difficult; that is very sad and speaks volumes about your lack of intellect.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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17-09-2013, 11:23 AM
RE: I am holier than thou
(17-09-2013 11:04 AM)excubitor Wrote:  
(17-09-2013 10:48 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  I didn't say 'sex', did I?
What, are you saying homosexuals aren't having sex.

I'm glad you didn't put a question mark at the end of that, because you clearly didn't mean it as a question.

No, I didn't say that or imply that.

Is this the only method you have for rebuttal? To make strawmen?

(you sound like I & I. A lot like him in fact Consider )

“Science is simply common sense at its best, that is, rigidly accurate in observation, and merciless to fallacy in logic.”
—Thomas Henry Huxley
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17-09-2013, 11:24 AM
RE: I am holier than thou
Well, so much for something new.

I'll take some lunch, now. Drinking Beverage

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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17-09-2013, 11:24 AM
RE: I am holier than thou
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Super Sniffer smells poe...

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