I am holier than thou
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19-09-2013, 04:12 AM
RE: I am holier than thou
(19-09-2013 04:03 AM)excubitor Wrote:  A couple of people here have accused me of being a coward.
To me this is utterly hilarious.
A man who uses a pseudonym on a blog and calls another man a coward, is not only a coward but a hypocrite also.

A man such as that, or woman, is good for only one purpose.
To practice the useful skill of ignoring, neglecting and utterly slighting a rude and abusive brute.

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19-09-2013, 04:20 AM
 
RE: I am holier than thou
Shame on you, EvolutionKills! You must go to your nearest parish a.s.a.p. and confess your sins. When was the last time you went to Confession?

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19-09-2013, 04:47 AM
RE: I am holier than thou
(19-09-2013 03:44 AM)excubitor Wrote:  
(17-09-2013 12:55 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  You are aware that the RCC holds evolution to be a fact, are you not? Just wondering.....I've only skimmed the thread and didn't catch if this had been touched upon yet.
No it doesn't. Show me that in the Catechism. A couple of recent Popes have said some things to make the Pontifical Academy of the Sciences happy but they were pretty weak statements. Mere opinions really.

The Popes know that they cannot state that Evolution is fact because that would oppose the sacred tradition of a six day creation which has persisted for 2000 years and for all the years prior. A fact known by Adam and all of his descendants, and by Noah, and by Abraham and his descendents. Confirmed by God to his people through Moses. Solomon the wisest man who ever lived never contradicted this fact. The creator of the universe who came to the earth incarnate, namely Jesus Christ never denied this and said many things in support of it.

The apostles were never told any different, nor were any of the theologians or doctors of the church for over 2000 years. Compared to this ageless testimony the weak opinions of a couple of modern popes amounts to very little. The Popes of today could far more easily counter the entire world of science than to even think of attempting to counter the sacred traditions of the church, the apostles and prophets and the clear account of the sacred scriptures.

"In the 1950 encyclical Humani generis, Pope Pius XII confirmed that there is no intrinsic conflict between Christianity and the theory of evolution, provided that Christians believe that the individual soul is a direct creation by God and not the product of purely material forces. Today, the Church supports theistic evolution(ism), also known as evolutionary creation."

A Papal encyclical is authoritative. Your understanding of the official stance of the Roman Catholic Church is in error.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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19-09-2013, 05:05 AM
RE: I am holier than thou
(19-09-2013 02:55 AM)excubitor Wrote:  No Father would be so inane as to answer this way to a genuine question of his son. That is avoiding the question and is truly one of the worst teaching styles I have ever heard advocated.

Hey, remember this:

(17-09-2013 10:02 AM)cheapthrillseaker Wrote:  
(17-09-2013 09:51 AM)excubitor Wrote:  I would like to speak generally about all intrinsic moral evils rather than about homosexuality specifically.
The joy in teaching a sinner about their intrinsic moral evil that they are engaging in is that having been told and warned, they might repent, renounce their sin and turn to God. As Jesus said "Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth."

So you're not comfortable in addressing my question. How cowardly of you. If you preach it and practice it and are questioned about it, be sure to actually stand up for your beliefs no matter how absurd they are because otherwise you come out looking like your ashamed of the beliefs your Roman Catholic Church holds and don't share all of its views.

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19-09-2013, 05:22 AM (This post was last modified: 19-09-2013 07:58 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: I am holier than thou
(19-09-2013 03:49 AM)excubitor Wrote:  
(17-09-2013 02:22 PM)Chas Wrote:  I do not accept the authority of the RCC in these matters; why do you? On what basis?
Because Jesus Christ received his authority from God the Father which he passed to the Apostle Peter giving him the keys to the kingdom, giving the other apostles the power to open and shut in heaven by the decisions they make on earth, powers and authorities that exceed even that of the angels. Because Christ instituted through the sacrament of Holy Orders that these powers and authorities were to pass to the Pope as successor to Peter and to the bishops as successors to the apostles. So we have a heavenly authority ruling on matters of faith, morals, sin and death. Against this great authority no man can speak without earning for himself the retribution of the most holy God, judge and maker of all things, king ruling supreme over all things as he was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be for evermore.

Jebus never "instituted" *holy orders*. Just RC brainwashed nonsense. The office of "priest" existed for thousands of years, INCLUDING authentically in the OT. Most cultures have priests. The gospels say NOTHING, about a new priesthood. Neither did the founder of Paulianity/Christianity, (Saul of Tarsus), The JEWS, who were the first Christians NEVER said there was a NEW priesthood, including in their interactions in Acts with the JEWISH High Priest. Jebus did not "receive" anything from anyone, if HE WAS GOD, (himself). .... obviously. More made up bs, from someone who is pretending to know what he's talking about. As I pointed out elsewhere, there was no such thing as a (Greek) "ecclesia" in Jebus' day, so to assert that he "gave the keys to the kingdom" to anyone, (much less a "church", is simply crap. (It's also not one of the authentic "quotes" that the Jesus Seminar/Biblical scholars agrees he actually said), and if it WAS important why is it, it does NOT appear in the first Christian writings ? Anyone who says "powers", which were cooked up by humans, "passed" from corrupt evil humans (popes with mistresses and children and gay lovers), to corrupt evil humans, (more attempted "proof by assertion", BTW), is simply delusional, and mentally ill. Whoever this excube-who-gave-away-his-brain, obviously NEEDS this garbage or his little world falls apart. Not only (as Chas proved above) does he NOT know his own cult, he doesn't even know his own catechism. In his initial post he posited he was of a higher moral status. In fact his catechism has 3 requirements for mortal sin. Any honest atheist, who sincerely and honestly is trying to live up to what she/he believes is the truth, obviously meets NONE of the catechism's requirements for sin at all, much less "mortal" sin, (as HIS NEW POPE has recently agreed with, and re-affirmed). Too bad excube-who-gave-away-his-brain never paid attention in his high school Moral Theology class, (assuming he ever even took one or read anything about it).
He gets an "F" in Catholic Studies. He does get a D- in fiction writing though, (attempted, but not very creative). Tongue
I continue to wonder why atheists have to teach beliebers about their cults, and why we know more about them than they do ?

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19-09-2013, 07:12 AM
RE: I am holier than thou
(19-09-2013 04:47 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(19-09-2013 03:44 AM)excubitor Wrote:  No it doesn't. Show me that in the Catechism. A couple of recent Popes have said some things to make the Pontifical Academy of the Sciences happy but they were pretty weak statements. Mere opinions really.

The Popes know that they cannot state that Evolution is fact because that would oppose the sacred tradition of a six day creation which has persisted for 2000 years and for all the years prior. A fact known by Adam and all of his descendants, and by Noah, and by Abraham and his descendents. Confirmed by God to his people through Moses. Solomon the wisest man who ever lived never contradicted this fact. The creator of the universe who came to the earth incarnate, namely Jesus Christ never denied this and said many things in support of it.

The apostles were never told any different, nor were any of the theologians or doctors of the church for over 2000 years. Compared to this ageless testimony the weak opinions of a couple of modern popes amounts to very little. The Popes of today could far more easily counter the entire world of science than to even think of attempting to counter the sacred traditions of the church, the apostles and prophets and the clear account of the sacred scriptures.

"In the 1950 encyclical Humani generis, Pope Pius XII confirmed that there is no intrinsic conflict between Christianity and the theory of evolution, provided that Christians believe that the individual soul is a direct creation by God and not the product of purely material forces. Today, the Church supports theistic evolution(ism), also known as evolutionary creation."

A Papal encyclical is authoritative. Your understanding of the official stance of the Roman Catholic Church is in error.
A Papal encyclical certainly has authority but it is not the infallible teaching of the church. It must also be interpreted in the context of 4000 years of Jewish and Christian belief. The Pope has no authority to teach anything contrary to this sacred tradition or against the scripture. Nor do I believe he has. He goes on in his encyclical to insist that All men have descended from an individual, Adam, who has transmitted original sin to all mankind. Catholics may not, therefore, believe in "polygenism", the scientific hypothesis that mankind descended from a group of original humans (that there were many Adams and Eves)

This basically rules out most of the theory of evolution. I actually believe in the Theory of Evolution in that I believe in the micro-evolution of a vast array of species within the one kind of creature. The vast array of different species of frog for example and the vast array of different species of finches with different size beaks, and the vast array of tortoises with different lengths of necks and the vast array of moths with different colours show conclusively that elements of the Theory of Evolution are true. So to that extent there is no intrinsic contradiction with the fundamentals precepts of the theory. It is where the theory is pushed too hard to say that man evolved from apes or monkeys that the church steps in and says "enough". Remember that the church is dealing with a disobedient and stiff necked people. The church provides her people with a fairly wide measure of flexibility of opinion, however most evolutionists if not all are disobedient to the rulings of Pope Pius XIIth. I am not. In fact I agree with him more than most Catholics today do.
I deny that I am in disagreement with him, but I am interpreting his words in the light of the sacred tradition and the sacred scripture, which I have no doubt that he would commend me for.
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19-09-2013, 07:15 AM
RE: I am holier than thou
(19-09-2013 07:12 AM)excubitor Wrote:  
(19-09-2013 04:47 AM)Chas Wrote:  "In the 1950 encyclical Humani generis, Pope Pius XII confirmed that there is no intrinsic conflict between Christianity and the theory of evolution, provided that Christians believe that the individual soul is a direct creation by God and not the product of purely material forces. Today, the Church supports theistic evolution(ism), also known as evolutionary creation."

A Papal encyclical is authoritative. Your understanding of the official stance of the Roman Catholic Church is in error.
A Papal encyclical certainly has authority but it is not the infallible teaching of the church. It must also be interpreted in the context of 4000 years of Jewish and Christian belief. The Pope has no authority to teach anything contrary to this sacred tradition or against the scripture. Nor do I believe he has. He goes on in his encyclical to insist that All men have descended from an individual, Adam, who has transmitted original sin to all mankind. Catholics may not, therefore, believe in "polygenism", the scientific hypothesis that mankind descended from a group of original humans (that there were many Adams and Eves)

This basically rules out most of the theory of evolution. I actually believe in the Theory of Evolution in that I believe in the micro-evolution of a vast array of species within the one kind of creature. The vast array of different species of frog for example and the vast array of different species of finches with different size beaks, and the vast array of tortoises with different lengths of necks and the vast array of moths with different colours show conclusively that elements of the Theory of Evolution are true. So to that extent there is no intrinsic contradiction with the fundamentals precepts of the theory. It is where the theory is pushed too hard to say that man evolved from apes or monkeys that the church steps in and says "enough". Remember that the church is dealing with a disobedient and stiff necked people. The church provides her people with a fairly wide measure of flexibility of opinion, however most evolutionists if not all are disobedient to the rulings of Pope Pius XIIth. I am not. In fact I agree with him more than most Catholics today do.
I deny that I am in disagreement with him, but I am interpreting his words in the light of the sacred tradition and the sacred scripture, which I have no doubt that he would commend me for.


So you ignore the evidence in favor of your view of an unchanging church and doctrine for which there is no rational reason to believe?

Your indoctrination was very complete. Sad, that.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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19-09-2013, 07:17 AM
RE: I am holier than thou
(19-09-2013 05:22 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(19-09-2013 03:49 AM)excubitor Wrote:  Because Jesus Christ received his authority from God the Father which he passed to the Apostle Peter giving him the keys to the kingdom, giving the other apostles the power to open and shut in heaven by the decisions they make on earth, powers and authorities that exceed even that of the angels. Because Christ instituted through the sacrament of Holy Orders that these powers and authorities were to pass to the Pope as successor to Peter and to the bishops as successors to the apostles. So we have a heavenly authority ruling on matters of faith, morals, sin and death. Against this great authority no man can speak without earning for himself the retribution of the most holy God, judge and maker of all things, king ruling supreme over all things as he was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be for evermore.

Jebus never "instituted" *holy orders*. Just RC brainwashed nonsense. The office of "priest" existed for thousands of years, INCLUDING authentically in the OT. Most cultures have priests. The gospels say NOTHING, about a new priesthood. Neither did the founder of Paulianity/Christianity, (Saul of Tarsus), The JEWS, who were the first Christians NEVER said there was a NEW priesthood, including in their interactions in Acts with the JEWISH High Priest. Jebus did not "receive" anything from anyone, if HE WAS GOD, (himself). .... obviously. More made up bs, from someone who is pretending to know what he's talking about. As I pointed out elsewhere, there was no such thing as a (Greek) "ecclesia" in Jebus' day, so to assert that he "gave the keys to the kingdom" to anyone, (much less a "church", is simply crap. (It's also not one of the authentic "quotes" that the Jesus Seminar/Biblical scholars agrees he actually said), and if it WAS important why is it, it does NOT appear in the first Christian writings ? Anyone who says "powers", which were cooked up by humans, "passed" from corrupt evil human (pope with mistresses and children and gay lovers), to corrupt evil human, (more attempted "proof by assertion", BTW), is simply delusional, and mentally ill. Whoever this excube-who-gave-away-his-brain, obviously NEEDS this garbage or his little world falls apart. Not only (as Chas proved above) does he NOT know his own cult, he doesn't even know his own catechism. In his initial post he posited he was of a higher moral status. In fact his catechism has 3 requirements for mortal sin. Any honest atheist, who sincerely and honestly is trying to live up to what she/he believes is the truth, obviously meets NONE of the catechism's requirements for sin at all, much less "mortal" sin, (as HIS NEW POPE has recently agreed with, and re-affirmed). Too bad excube-who-gave-away-his-brain never paid attention in his high school Moral Theology class, (assuming he ever even took one or read anything about it).
He gets an "F" in Catholic Studies. He does get a D- in fiction writing though, (attempted, but not very creative). Tongue
I continue to wonder why atheists have to teach beliebers about their cults, and why we know more about them than they do ?
So where does your authority come from to make all these claims without a thimbles worth of supporting documentation. Truly your post is like taking the top off your head and pouring out every first thought that comes out of your brain without even thinking what you are saying. You make the wildest claims and think that they most certainly are right because YOU thought of them out of your own inflated head. What arrogance.
You and others accuse me and say "where is your authority" then you howl down the authority I espouse with no authority whatsoever and with the biggest set of vacuous statements that any man could assemble in 5 minutes.
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19-09-2013, 07:36 AM
RE: I am holier than thou
(19-09-2013 07:15 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(19-09-2013 07:12 AM)excubitor Wrote:  A Papal encyclical certainly has authority but it is not the infallible teaching of the church. It must also be interpreted in the context of 4000 years of Jewish and Christian belief. The Pope has no authority to teach anything contrary to this sacred tradition or against the scripture. Nor do I believe he has. He goes on in his encyclical to insist that All men have descended from an individual, Adam, who has transmitted original sin to all mankind. Catholics may not, therefore, believe in "polygenism", the scientific hypothesis that mankind descended from a group of original humans (that there were many Adams and Eves)

This basically rules out most of the theory of evolution. I actually believe in the Theory of Evolution in that I believe in the micro-evolution of a vast array of species within the one kind of creature. The vast array of different species of frog for example and the vast array of different species of finches with different size beaks, and the vast array of tortoises with different lengths of necks and the vast array of moths with different colours show conclusively that elements of the Theory of Evolution are true. So to that extent there is no intrinsic contradiction with the fundamentals precepts of the theory. It is where the theory is pushed too hard to say that man evolved from apes or monkeys that the church steps in and says "enough". Remember that the church is dealing with a disobedient and stiff necked people. The church provides her people with a fairly wide measure of flexibility of opinion, however most evolutionists if not all are disobedient to the rulings of Pope Pius XIIth. I am not. In fact I agree with him more than most Catholics today do.
I deny that I am in disagreement with him, but I am interpreting his words in the light of the sacred tradition and the sacred scripture, which I have no doubt that he would commend me for.


So you ignore the evidence in favor of your view of an unchanging church and doctrine for which there is no rational reason to believe?

Your indoctrination was very complete. Sad, that.
I deny that there is any clear evidence to the contrary to anything which I believe. I have done a huge amount of study into geology, astronomy, cosmology. Everything I see in all of these fields which I have the capacity to comprehend as a layman is in agreement with my beliefs which I have learned from the church and the scripture. When I look at the formations of the earth in geology I see evidence of a six day creation and a cataclysmic global flood. When I study the heavens and the movements of the planets, sun and moon I see unarguable evidence of a geocentric universe. When I see all the different kinds of creatures and the complexity of the simplest cell I see evidence for the special creation of the heavens and earth in six days by the Lord God.

Nor is your claim of indoctrination true. I grew up believing that the earth orbited the sun like everyone else. It has taken considerable strength of mind to go against the tide of humanity and most individuals in my church to believe something contrary.
Also I was indoctrinated (if you want to call it that) as a protestant Christian and in my 40's converted to the Catholic faith. Most here will not comprehend the huge paradigm shift this entails and the fallout in family relationships this kind of conversion causes.

If anybody here is an example of someone who has thrown off the indoctrination of their early life and adopted independently their own set of beliefs IT IS ME. I have the runs on the board. You lot are pretenders.

Most of you are just rude and banal brutes. You can tell that by the kind of language and the pictures you put up. Rebellious children who are more interested in throwing off the bonds of authority than reaching out for any kind of truth. I call upon you all to throw off childish things and think like men. Especially you who are here who are apostate Catholics. Apostate Catholics are truly the worst and most base enemies of the church. Go and say sorry to Mom and Grandma and kneel before them and plead for their forgiveness. I say that unless you repent their prayers and tears and rosaries will fall on deaf ears. Call out to our blessed Mother Mary. You might regard yourself as Darth Vader "it is too late for me" but even with that most tiny glimmer and a single prayer for intercession from our blessed and holy mother you can be brought back from the brink.

Please apostate Catholics. For the sake of your souls, pray the rosary. I can help you and show you how it is done. PM me.
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19-09-2013, 07:43 AM
RE: I am holier than thou
(19-09-2013 07:36 AM)excubitor Wrote:  
(19-09-2013 07:15 AM)Chas Wrote:  So you ignore the evidence in favor of your view of an unchanging church and doctrine for which there is no rational reason to believe?

Your indoctrination was very complete. Sad, that.
I deny that there is any clear evidence to the contrary to anything which I believe. I have done a huge amount of study into geology, astronomy, cosmology. Everything I see in all of these fields which I have the capacity to comprehend as a layman is in agreement with my beliefs which I have learned from the church and the scripture. When I look at the formations of the earth in geology I see evidence of a six day creation and a cataclysmic global flood. When I study the heavens and the movements of the planets, sun and moon I see unarguable evidence of a geocentric universe. When I see all the different kinds of creatures and the complexity of the simplest cell I see evidence for the special creation of the heavens and earth in six days by the Lord God.

Nor is your claim of indoctrination true. I grew up believing that the earth orbited the sun like everyone else. It has taken considerable strength of mind to go against the tide of humanity and most individuals in my church to believe something contrary.
Also I was indoctrinated (if you want to call it that) as a protestant Christian and in my 40's converted to the Catholic faith. Most here will not comprehend the huge paradigm shift this entails and the fallout in family relationships this kind of conversion causes.

If anybody here is an example of someone who has thrown off the indoctrination of their early life and adopted independently their own set of beliefs IT IS ME. I have the runs on the board. You lot are pretenders.

Most of you are just rude and banal brutes. You can tell that by the kind of language and the pictures you put up. Rebellious children who are more interested in throwing off the bonds of authority than reaching out for any kind of truth. I call upon you all to throw off childish things and think like men. Especially you who are here who are apostate Catholics. Apostate Catholics are truly the worst and most base enemies of the church. Go and say sorry to Mom and Grandma and kneel before them and plead for their forgiveness. I say that unless you repent their prayers and tears and rosaries will fall on deaf ears. Call out to our blessed Mother Mary. You might regard yourself as Darth Vader "it is too late for me" but even with that most tiny glimmer and a single prayer for intercession from our blessed and holy mother you can be brought back from the brink.

Please apostate Catholics. For the sake of your souls, pray the rosary. I can help you and show you how it is done. PM me.

Six-day creation? Flood geology? Geocentrism?

I can only conclude that you are delusional.

What made you lose rationality?

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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