I am holier than thou
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20-09-2013, 05:45 PM
RE: I am holier than thou
(20-09-2013 05:16 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  BTW - your church has the authority, with the snap of its fingers, to make a ruling regarding a couple's personal and private decision to have bodily autonomy, you say?

Your church lost that authority to be anyone's moral compass once they purposely delayed investigations into and facilitated the rape of children through the obstruction of justice.

Furthermore - Pope Benedict spread the lie that condoms spread the HIV virus...a complete lie! So when he said that aids is bad, very bad...but not as bad as condoms, he made himself personally responsible for the suffering and death of millions of people.

The church and its leaders have no moral authority until they can demonstrate by example that they know right from wrong.
The church teaches monogamy in marriage. If this teaching was followed millions of lives would be saved from HIV. Of course the Pope is not going to support any argument which rejects a legitimate resolution of the problem by replacing it with a band-aid illegitimate resolution of the problem.
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20-09-2013, 05:55 PM
RE: I am holier than thou
(20-09-2013 05:16 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  BTW - your church has the authority, with the snap of its fingers, to make a ruling regarding a couple's personal and private decision to have bodily autonomy, you say?

Your church lost that authority to be anyone's moral compass once they purposely delayed investigations into and facilitated the rape of children through the obstruction of justice.

Furthermore - Pope Benedict spread the lie that condoms spread the HIV virus...a complete lie! So when he said that aids is bad, very bad...but not as bad as condoms, he made himself personally responsible for the suffering and death of millions of people.

The church and its leaders have no moral authority until they can demonstrate by example that they know right from wrong.
Whether or not they lost their moral authority is only your opinion. Your opinion has no authority whatsoever. Authority is not overruled by opinions of people with no authority no matter how many people hold that opinion. The church does not need to rely on moral authority anyway. It has actual authority to rule on matters of faith and morality. The churches judgement on these matters are bound in heaven and on earth because God the Father gave this authority to his Son Jesus Christ who gave the keys of the kingdom of heaven to Peter and the apostles to open and close, bind and loose all things in heaven and on earth. It is an incredible thing when you ponder this and come to the realization how immense that authority is.

The authority of the church is not in any way reduced by the sins of the people in the church. As laymen we have the right to protest against their behaviour but we must never disobey such a great authority as the church or disregard the churches teachings. If we disobey and disregard the teachings and authoritative rulings of the church then it is the same thing as disregarding the teachings and rulings of God himself. This is not because the church is God, it is because God has lead the church to issue those teachings and rulings. He has done this through the indwelling of his Holy Spirit who leads the hierarchy of the church to preserve the teachings of the church and to make rulings on difficult issues which arise throughout the course of history.
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20-09-2013, 06:07 PM
RE: I am holier than thou
(20-09-2013 05:45 PM)excubitor Wrote:  
(20-09-2013 05:16 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  BTW - your church has the authority, with the snap of its fingers, to make a ruling regarding a couple's personal and private decision to have bodily autonomy, you say?

Your church lost that authority to be anyone's moral compass once they purposely delayed investigations into and facilitated the rape of children through the obstruction of justice.

Furthermore - Pope Benedict spread the lie that condoms spread the HIV virus...a complete lie! So when he said that aids is bad, very bad...but not as bad as condoms, he made himself personally responsible for the suffering and death of millions of people.

The church and its leaders have no moral authority until they can demonstrate by example that they know right from wrong.
The church teaches monogamy in marriage. If this teaching was followed millions of lives would be saved from HIV. Of course the Pope is not going to support any argument which rejects a legitimate resolution of the problem by replacing it with a band-aid illegitimate resolution of the problem.

People can contract aids through means other than sexual contact. Through contaminated blood transfusions, for example. So now an infected recipient can then infect his spouse through sexual contact.
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20-09-2013, 06:10 PM
RE: I am holier than thou
(20-09-2013 05:55 PM)excubitor Wrote:  
(20-09-2013 05:16 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  BTW - your church has the authority, with the snap of its fingers, to make a ruling regarding a couple's personal and private decision to have bodily autonomy, you say?

Your church lost that authority to be anyone's moral compass once they purposely delayed investigations into and facilitated the rape of children through the obstruction of justice.

Furthermore - Pope Benedict spread the lie that condoms spread the HIV virus...a complete lie! So when he said that aids is bad, very bad...but not as bad as condoms, he made himself personally responsible for the suffering and death of millions of people.

The church and its leaders have no moral authority until they can demonstrate by example that they know right from wrong.
Whether or not they lost their moral authority is only your opinion. Your opinion has no authority whatsoever. Authority is not overruled by opinions of people with no authority no matter how many people hold that opinion. The church does not need to rely on moral authority anyway. It has actual authority to rule on matters of faith and morality. The churches judgement on these matters are bound in heaven and on earth because God the Father gave this authority to his Son Jesus Christ who gave the keys of the kingdom of heaven to Peter and the apostles to open and close, bind and loose all things in heaven and on earth. It is an incredible thing when you ponder this and come to the realization how immense that authority is.

The authority of the church is not in any way reduced by the sins of the people in the church. As laymen we have the right to protest against their behaviour but we must never disobey such a great authority as the church or disregard the churches teachings. If we disobey and disregard the teachings and authoritative rulings of the church then it is the same thing as disregarding the teachings and rulings of God himself. This is not because the church is God, it is because God has lead the church to issue those teachings and rulings. He has done this through the indwelling of his Holy Spirit who leads the hierarchy of the church to preserve the teachings of the church and to make rulings on difficult issues which arise throughout the course of history.

What is your proof of God's delegation of this supposed authority. That's the part you are missing.
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20-09-2013, 06:12 PM
RE: I am holier than thou
(20-09-2013 05:45 PM)excubitor Wrote:  
(20-09-2013 05:16 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  BTW - your church has the authority, with the snap of its fingers, to make a ruling regarding a couple's personal and private decision to have bodily autonomy, you say?

Your church lost that authority to be anyone's moral compass once they purposely delayed investigations into and facilitated the rape of children through the obstruction of justice.

Furthermore - Pope Benedict spread the lie that condoms spread the HIV virus...a complete lie! So when he said that aids is bad, very bad...but not as bad as condoms, he made himself personally responsible for the suffering and death of millions of people.

The church and its leaders have no moral authority until they can demonstrate by example that they know right from wrong.
The church teaches monogamy in marriage. If this teaching was followed millions of lives would be saved from HIV. Of course the Pope is not going to support any argument which rejects a legitimate resolution of the problem by replacing it with a band-aid illegitimate resolution of the problem.


You missed the point. the Pope spread a lie that condoms spread the virus. His Lie, irrespective of his rationale for providing it, is responsible for the deaths of millions. Lives, God's supposed children. Murder by proxy.



Good luck squaring that circle. Oh yeah...and checkmate.
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20-09-2013, 06:19 PM
RE: I am holier than thou
excubitor,
What about hermaphrodites? They're completely infertile. Can they have sex? And with whom? It seems GAAAAwD! created a bit of a sticky wicket. Being male and female simultaneously, to marry a man is male homosexuality, and to marry a woman is female homosexuality. To marry each other is male and female homosexuality combined. And with no chance for pregnancy (according to you) it would be lust in any case.
BTW, how many homeless people did you ignore to antagonize us again? Clearly you have nothing better to do tonight either.

You can lead a theist to reason, but, you cannot make him think.
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20-09-2013, 06:21 PM
RE: I am holier than thou
(20-09-2013 06:07 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  
(20-09-2013 05:45 PM)excubitor Wrote:  The church teaches monogamy in marriage. If this teaching was followed millions of lives would be saved from HIV. Of course the Pope is not going to support any argument which rejects a legitimate resolution of the problem by replacing it with a band-aid illegitimate resolution of the problem.

People can contract aids through means other than sexual contact. Through contaminated blood transfusions, for example. So now an infected recipient can then infect his spouse through sexual contact.
If everybody practiced only monogamous sex then there would be virtually no infected blood to contaminate anybody. Are you denying that being faithful in a monogamous relationship dramatically reduces basically to nil our chances of contracting AIDS?
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20-09-2013, 06:25 PM
RE: I am holier than thou
(20-09-2013 06:19 PM)NoSkyDaddy Wrote:  excubitor,
What about hermaphrodites? They're completely infertile. Can they have sex? And with whom? It seems GAAAAwD! created a bit of a sticky wicket. Being male and female simultaneously, to marry a man is male homosexuality, and to marry a woman is female homosexuality. To marry each other is male and female homosexuality combined. And with no chance for pregnancy (according to you) it would be lust in any case.
BTW, how many homeless people did you ignore to antagonize us again? Clearly you have nothing better to do tonight either.

A true Hermaphrodite is so rare that I cannot even be bothered to develop a position on it. I am talking about situations where people are clearly male or female.
I saw this http://www.ewtn.com/vexperts/showmessage...nu=&recnu= You can read it if you interested in the subject. I am not.
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20-09-2013, 06:27 PM
RE: I am holier than thou
Nope, not denying it at all. What I am saying is that the Absteinance, Be faithful, and Condoms (ABC) is effective. However, if a spouse is infected, the Pope shouldn't lie about the effectiveness of condoms either!!!

If you tell "Fire" in a theater because you want to stop people from watching a morally inappropriate movie, and people DIE from being trampled to death, then you are responsible for their death. We, in the US, have made that a law. The Pope is guilty of this very thing when he lied about condoms.

Like I said, checkmate.

A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day - Bill Watterson
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20-09-2013, 06:28 PM
RE: I am holier than thou
(20-09-2013 06:25 PM)excubitor Wrote:  
(20-09-2013 06:19 PM)NoSkyDaddy Wrote:  excubitor,
What about hermaphrodites? They're completely infertile. Can they have sex? And with whom? It seems GAAAAwD! created a bit of a sticky wicket. Being male and female simultaneously, to marry a man is male homosexuality, and to marry a woman is female homosexuality. To marry each other is male and female homosexuality combined. And with no chance for pregnancy (according to you) it would be lust in any case.
BTW, how many homeless people did you ignore to antagonize us again? Clearly you have nothing better to do tonight either.

A true Hermaphrodite is so rare that I cannot even be bothered to develop a position on it. I am talking about situations where people are clearly male or female.
I saw this http://www.ewtn.com/vexperts/showmessage...nu=&recnu= You can read it if you interested in the subject. I am not.
But, how many homeless did you ignore? Surely you would have a better chance of spreading the gospel to someone in need. You're wasting your time here.

You can lead a theist to reason, but, you cannot make him think.
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