I am holier than thou
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17-09-2013, 08:30 AM
RE: I am holier than thou
(17-09-2013 08:18 AM)excubitor Wrote:  Yes I guess you are right on most of these points. My comments are a generalisation but even though I have had a traumatic childhood I don't believe that this is the reason for making a generalisation about atheists. I have made this generalisation after over 30 years engaging in debates with atheists and I can quite safely say that in my experience atheists generally react abusively towards theists, even with swearing, ridicule and mocking. It is clear to me that this abuse is generally motivated by anger, resentment against God, religion, the church or authority figures who were considered to be religious which the atheist then transfers onto believers in God who he/she encounters.

I can see that you are a very unusual exception to this rule so I am pleased to meet you and trust that we can have a respectful dialogue going forward.

As an atheists, I don't have a resentment towards a deity because the deity doesn't exist to me. Now, what people do in the name of a deity, like, tell people how to live, who to hate, how to think, well now, that certainly gets a reaction from me.

And if you judge everyone as a whole, then have you read in your bible the story of Lot?

What sort of debates did you do? There are several ways of having a debate, and you can actually set some ground rules at the beginning that preclude the use of personal mockery and insults. Not in this thread, though. It isn't a debate and was never stated as being one at the beginning.

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17-09-2013, 08:31 AM
RE: I am holier than thou
But i must admit,you do have a good sense of humor considering you're e-clergy

KC IS A LIAR!!!! HE PROMISED ME VANILLA CAKES AND GAVE ME STRAWBERRY CAKE Weeping
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17-09-2013, 08:34 AM
RE: I am holier than thou
amazing..me i had a brother that couldnt see anything of a value but to want to steal it, it becames crazy how far he went of that, he became a psycho paying a fortune to all kind of criminals around so that they can force everything to say his name, as if things wanted him and still not that he ever steal anything that never mean him at all
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17-09-2013, 08:35 AM
RE: I am holier than thou
Excub...look up Mark Dreher...start from the beginning.

He thinks we should follow him to god. There have been others. How will we know which pushy theist is the right one to line up behind?

You may figure out why we aren't so open to theists that think we should follow them. Some of them want to lead us straight into their own personal crazy.

See here they are, the bruises, some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF
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17-09-2013, 08:37 AM (This post was last modified: 17-09-2013 08:42 AM by DLJ.)
RE: I am holier than thou
(17-09-2013 08:18 AM)excubitor Wrote:  
(17-09-2013 07:35 AM)DLJ Wrote:  Please forgive me if I missed it but... why are you here?

I'm genuinely curious.
Not really sure. Preaching the gospel I guess. I tend to bounce from forum to forum wherever subjects related to religion are to be found. You might have noticed that I am not generally popular or appreciated on these forums so I often get banned. This is because I speak the truth and most people love lies. They cannot bear to be exposed to the dazzling light of truth so they shrink back into the shadows and howl at me.

(17-09-2013 07:35 AM)DLJ Wrote:  Nicely written OP btw. I like that. But you ended with an unusual generalisation about people you have never met:


Maybe you simply haven't been on the forum long enough to get to know us (like many of the more popular theists here have managed to do) or maybe, well, I was wondering whether you had had maybe some sort of traumatic experience, some mental, verbal or physical abuse, perhaps as a child, to make you say something like that.

Happy to discuss via private message if it's something you find embarrassing.

Hug
Yes I guess you are right on most of these points. My comments are a generalisation but even though I have had a traumatic childhood I don't believe that this is the reason for making a generalisation about atheists. I have made this generalisation after over 30 years engaging in debates with atheists and I can quite safely say that in my experience atheists generally react abusively towards theists, even with swearing, ridicule and mocking. It is clear to me that this abuse is generally motivated by anger, resentment against God, religion, the church or authority figures who were considered to be religious which the atheist then transfers onto believers in God who he/she encounters.

I can see that you are a very unusual exception to this rule so I am pleased to meet you and trust that we can have a respectful dialogue going forward.

Full marks for honesty. Thank you.

In your journeys around atheist byways of the internet did you consider that word "truth"?

You say "This is because I speak the truth and most people love lies."
Putting your best 'empathy' hat on for a moment, can you imagine how that comes across to a person who has decided upon a different 'truth' through what they believe to be thorough research, consideration, reflection on subjects as diverse as scripture, ancient myth history, biology, physics, chemistry or indeed by introspection or even revelation?

Does it seem as arrogant as an atheist saying to you that they know the truth and you believe lies?
Does saying that people "love lies" not seem like an insult? When I insult someone here, which I often do, I expect to be mocked. It's why I like this place, actually.

btw, correct spelling of "generalisation". You were obviously raised on the right side of the Atlantic. Thumbsup

More interestingly, you say, "It is clear to me that this abuse is generally motivated by anger, resentment against God, religion, the church or authority figures who were considered to be religious which the atheist then transfers onto believers in God who he/she encounters."

Well, I can't speak for whoever you are referring to but 'anger' or at least 'frustration' might be right... with religion / church / authority figures at any rate. This could be true.
But not anger towards any deity.

That would be like me saying I am angry with Zeus or the Easter Bunny or Unicorns. Big Grin

I like unicorns.

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17-09-2013, 08:40 AM
RE: I am holier than thou
(17-09-2013 08:04 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Words don't exist in a vacuum of one meaning. Language is living and phrases as understood in context and in metaphorical meaning are of no hamper to their exact origins.

Atheists use the phrase oh my God plenty with no care. Because its ingrained by their culture and it is has no reverence to its religious meaning to many, even many religious people.

Its basically saying you sound elitist, to use a different phrase. It was also probably used because the person was aware you were Christian which gives it that connection, not mattering that they are an atheist.
If you are saying that people use words without thinking about what they mean and why they are saying it then of course I agree with you. That is actually what I am saying.

Call me Sigmund Freud if you like, but as the Lord says "Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks". Choices of phrases and patterns of speech and the manner in which words are used are all clues to the innermost motivations and thoughts of a man, so that the wise can understand him better than he understands himself.

As for me appearing elitist. I agree that is a problem. Perhaps I need to modify my approach a bit to avoid this also, however as i explained in a previous post it is by God's grace that I have his favour, not through any intrinsic elitism or superiority of myself. Quite the contrary it is because of my smallness, meakness and humility that I have the favour of the Lord.

But having found the favour of the Lord and experienced the fulness of joy that comes from this, should I not make this the boast of my strength and share this with others so that they can be partakers of the divine nature as I am? Should I hide my joy and the glory which is upon me by the light of God? Christ said
Matt 5:14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid. 15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, [2] but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house. 16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

So you see. I am the light of this forum. Should I pretend to be dark so as not to offend those who love the darkness. I say not. See my joy, see my peace, see my holiness and righteousness, but do not extol me; rather give glory to God your Father which is in heaven that he has granted his favour to mere men and lifted them up to be his sons.
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17-09-2013, 08:42 AM
RE: I am holier than thou
Excub...you may have better luck if you speak as yourself and not as though you are talking through divine influence.

Tell us what you believe, think, etc. Not what you think you are supposed to say to the heathens.

See here they are, the bruises, some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF
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17-09-2013, 08:44 AM
RE: I am holier than thou
And a note...we aren't theist haters here. One of the admins here is a theist. We are pretty open to anyone who will interact after checking their superiority complex at the door.

See here they are, the bruises, some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF
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17-09-2013, 08:49 AM
RE: I am holier than thou
(17-09-2013 08:40 AM)excubitor Wrote:  [quote='ClydeLee' pid='379833' dateline='1379426658']

So you see. I am the light of this forum. Should I pretend to be dark so as not to offend those who love the darkness. I say not. See my joy, see my peace, see my holiness and righteousness, but do not extol me; rather give glory to God your Father which is in heaven that he has granted his favour to mere men and lifted them up to be his sons.

No, you are not the light of this forum. You have beliefs for which there is no evidence, so you are darkness personified - the darkness of ignorance and delusion.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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17-09-2013, 08:50 AM
RE: I am holier than thou
(17-09-2013 08:35 AM)Anjele Wrote:  Excub...look up Mark Dreher...start from the beginning.
Not sure who Mark Dreher is and not interested who he might be.
Nor should anybody be interested who Excubitor is. I am nothing, however I direct you to the Roman Catholic Church which exercises the authority of the apostles through the bishops. I am obedient to my bishop. When I urge people to follow me, I am confident to say this only because i know that I follow my bishop. If people follow me they will also follow their local bishop in their diocese of the Roman Catholic Church. I may be nothing. Mark Dreher may be nothing, but the Roman Catholic Church is something very great indeed, of immense authority, called the pillar and ground of truth by the apostle Paul himself.

(17-09-2013 08:35 AM)Anjele Wrote:  He thinks we should follow him to god. There have been others. How will we know which pushy theist is the right one to line up behind?
Very important and excellent question which I hope I have answered above.

(17-09-2013 08:35 AM)Anjele Wrote:  You may figure out why we aren't so open to theists that think we should follow them. Some of them want to lead us straight into their own personal crazy.
That is certainly not the case with me. I have no personal interest in assembling a personal following. I direct all who may be impressed by what I write to their local Roman Catholic priest and to follow his instructions for the salvation of their souls.
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