I am holier than thou
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17-09-2013, 09:35 AM (This post was last modified: 17-09-2013 09:38 AM by excubitor.)
RE: I am holier than thou
(17-09-2013 09:19 AM)DLJ Wrote:  
(17-09-2013 09:09 AM)absols Wrote:  this is the point, the word truth that everyone refer to to mean believing or not, or to invent some lies n reject others
how can everyone mean the same thing by refering to truth ??? when truth is not smthg anyone could even conceive

but there are some facts that noone could deny

truth means positive thing, a thing is true when it exists in constant way

now here from what everyone know started the issue i guess,

constancy could b not supported and agressed

then truth is weak

so powers became the truth

so here we can see the two opposite blocs using the word truth

we have who mean truth as positive thing independant to who means it, so objectively proven

and we have who mean truth as powers force over things, so the sense of strength over positive unconsistency that become called nothing for powers to b instead according to who means the truth what he enjoys imagining forcing

Give me something praiseworthy and I'll praise it because... I do not lie ... I understood this post and what's more, I actually agree with it.

This could be the start of a beautiful relationship.

Of course, I may have completely misunderstood it and I'm just deluding myself.

Wouldn't be the first time.

Bravo sir! Please keep it up.

Yes
To say that I understood the post would be pushing it. However he did say that "a thing is true when it exists in a constant way".
This is actually quite profound, although I am sure that absols was being profound in an accidental kind of way.

The scripture puts it that "God is the same yesterday, today, and forever". Therefore we look for systems of belief which have been stable for hundreds and even thousands of years. The Christian religion is an example of a stable belief system.

Science however is an ever changing set of teachings. As an example the first scientists were geocentrists, then Galileo and Copernicus rejected this and science taught heliocentrism. Then science taught acentrism which is that there is no centre to the universe. Then general relativity came along with Einstein who taught that "The struggle, so violent in the early days of science, between the views of Ptolemy and Copernicus would then be quite meaningless. Either coordinate system could be used with equal justification. The two sentences: “The sun is at rest and the earth moves, “or “the sun moves and the earth is at rest,” would simply mean two different conventions concerning two different coordinate systems” The Evolution of Physics Albert Einstein and Leopold Infeld."

So we see science has almost come full circle with every conceivable variation of the theme having its day in the sun. Clearly science is not a stable reliable system of constant unchanging truth. Therefore as absols points out IT IS NOT TRUE because it does not exist in a constant way but is always changing and in a state of flux.
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17-09-2013, 09:39 AM
RE: I am holier than thou
Oh good grief...absols seen as profound.

That'll earn a lot of followers.Dodgy

'See here they are, the bruises, some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way.' -JF
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17-09-2013, 09:46 AM
RE: I am holier than thou
(17-09-2013 09:33 AM)DLJ Wrote:  I'm tempted to critique your post line by line and point out the ironies (child-abusing priests), fallacies (ad populum etc.) and other face-palmy stuff but it's getting late here and I haven't been sleeping well.

So instead, just two things:
1) An attempt to get to know atheists as individuals rather than generalising would go down well here (and IRL, I wager).
2) Please explain how your hypotheses fit with the facts regarding those here born atheist (which we all were) not indoctrinated into any faith and therefore remain atheist? e.g. KidC, above.

Cheers
I think we all have to talk in generalisations to some extent or else we would not be able to speak on larger issues at all. This does not preclude however drilling down into the details and addressing specific cases. I am quite happy to get to know individuals here. Every person has a unique story and i certainly do not intend for my generalisations to belittle or minimise the uniqueness of each individual. My generalisations are just for the purpose of communication and conveying larger concepts.

How can someone be "born atheist". Are you telling me that there is an atheist gene that causes you to be atheist. I would imagine that what you are describing is someone who has been indoctrinated by their parents to be atheist. Parents pass on their beliefs to their children. That is why I taught my children to be Christian. My point is that virtually every parent indoctrinates their children to believe as they do. No doubt there are exceptions to this generalisation that you will quickly point out to me.
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17-09-2013, 09:48 AM
 
RE: I am holier than thou
(17-09-2013 06:33 AM)excubitor Wrote:  In one of my negative reps an atheist accused me of being a "holier than thou theist".

It was me. And I never declared myself an atheist, which I told you already, but you don't seem to be listening.

(17-09-2013 06:33 AM)excubitor Wrote:  Here is the definition of holy
1. specially recognized as or declared sacred by religious use or authority; consecrated: holy ground.
2. dedicated or devoted to the service of God, the church, or religion: a holy man.
3. saintly; godly; pious; devout: a holy life.
4. having a spiritually pure quality: a holy love.

...which is irrelevant, because "holier-than-thou" is a phrase, defined as:
1. Exhibiting an attitude of superior virtue; self-righteously pious.
2. obnoxiously pious; sanctimonious.
3. excessively or hypocritically pious; "a sickening sanctimonious smile"
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/holier-than-thou

(17-09-2013 06:33 AM)excubitor Wrote:  By the grace of God the word holy describes me.

Your posts here don't reflect that. You display arrogance, self-righteousness, ignorance, and disrespect.

(17-09-2013 06:33 AM)excubitor Wrote:  As a result of his choice to disbelieve and reject God, the word holy does not apply to the atheist.

I did not choose to disbelieve. This seems to be a problem for arrogant theists like you to understand. A rational person follows reason and evidence, and I don't find any rational reason to believe in Christianity.
I used to believe, until I could no longer be intellectually honest with myself. I find Christianity illogical, contradictory, unsupported, and immoral.

(17-09-2013 06:33 AM)excubitor Wrote:  This is the attitude of Cain, when God did not favour him. Cain rose up in his anger and slew righteous Abel. Instead of repenting and seeking God's favour so that he could be like Abel he rejected Abel completely by killing him. As a result he became a vagabond on the earth rejected by God and man alike.

Who says Abel was "righteous" or in any way better than Cain? Your priest? Genesis doesn't explain why God favored Abel over Cain.
This is only one of many injustices in the Bible, because of which, as I've said, I find Christianity immoral.

You don't seem to be willing to respond to my objections to your comments in the thread "Blind Faith is a Sickness," although I put a lot of effort in responding. This is the case, I believe, because you don't have any arguments. At least you haven't presented any valid ones - you only babble about the only true church with apostolic authority, without any evidence or support. People in the 21st century don't buy empty assertions like that one anymore. Your church is history - the five Aquinas' "proofs" have been debunked, neuroscience has disproved soul, angels, demons etc., history has disproved most Old Testament myths and discovered many fabrications and interpolations in the Gospels, and the worst for you: your church can no longer keep people illiterate and ignorant, so they research the facts and find that your "product" is a scam. And of course this causes anger in some people. Would you feel anger if you found out that you've been had?
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17-09-2013, 09:51 AM
RE: I am holier than thou
(17-09-2013 07:13 AM)absols Wrote:  put all holly in ur ass, the atheist have no problem with facts, the fact is not the holy anything but only the will of u to pretend being superior while through his acceptance so through others existence

which is the rule of evil to live by abusing others presence for a positive justification of being superior urself

so the opposite way of right superiority, the opposition to true freedom sense

I'm with the Ab-mister on this - PUT ALL HOLLY IN UR ASS, MUTHUFUKER! Thumbsup

I think in the end, I just feel like I'm a secular person who has a skeptical eye toward any extraordinary claim, carefully examining any extraordinary evidence before jumping to conclusions. ~ Eric ~ My friend ... who figured it out.
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17-09-2013, 09:51 AM
RE: I am holier than thou
(17-09-2013 09:34 AM)cheapthrillseaker Wrote:  Showing us the right path and bringing joy?

Please explain why then homosexuality is considered an intrinsic moral evil by your own Roman Catholic Church.

How does that bring joy?
I would like to speak generally about all intrinsic moral evils rather than about homosexuality specifically.
The joy in teaching a sinner about their intrinsic moral evil that they are engaging in is that having been told and warned, they might repent, renounce their sin and turn to God. As Jesus said "Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth."
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17-09-2013, 09:55 AM
RE: I am holier than thou
(17-09-2013 09:48 AM)Philosoraptor Wrote:  You don't seem to be willing to respond to my objections to your comments in the thread "Blind Faith is a Sickness," although I put a lot of effort in responding. This is the case, I believe, because you don't have any arguments. At least you haven't presented any valid ones - you only babble about the only true church with apostolic authority, without any evidence or support. People in the 21st century don't buy empty assertions like that one anymore. Your church is history - the five Aquinas' "proofs" have been debunked, neuroscience has disproved soul, angels, demons etc., history has disproved most Old Testament myths and discovered many fabrications and interpolations in the Gospels, and the worst for you: your church can no longer keep people illiterate and ignorant, so they research the facts and find that your "product" is a scam. And of course this causes anger in some people. Would you feel anger if you found out that you've been had?

So far I've gotten the silent treatment as well, and suspect as much.

My guess is the dude is here to get some extra new "hip cool things from the secularists" in order to help keep Christianity hip as well, when historically Christianity has only proven itself to to be good at hip when it came to breaking hips, for no reason whatsoever.

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17-09-2013, 09:59 AM
RE: I am holier than thou
For me, I am most impressed by the theists I know that live their beliefs but do not feel the need to ram those beliefs down my throat. Instead, I respect their beliefs and they respect my non-belief, mostly because they know I didn't take my deconversion lightly.

One of my favorite people on this board and some of my favorite people in real life fall into that category.

While I am sure they would like to see me come back to religion, they don't feel they are a mission to drag me back, convince me, or berate me. Instead their stance is that people should come to god on their own because then it is honest and truly felt. No threats of damnation, no threats of isolation, no brow-beating. They don't try to change me and I don't try to change them. People are not just made up of their religious affiliation or lack thereof.

When you roll in with your god guns blazing, don't expect to be welcomed...and don't think you are the first...nor will you be the last.

'See here they are, the bruises, some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way.' -JF
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17-09-2013, 09:59 AM
RE: I am holier than thou
like what excubitor just did, he deformed what i clearly said to serve his forcing will

when the thing is seen being constant, it is the lie, which mean the powers on things to stay same

the constancy is not to the thing, the constancy is to positive constant source

in the mean that a thing in truth is positive constant end from its fact value so of nothing but alone

while excubitor, mean to force the perspective of relative physical things as being true, which is absurd
it is the will to kill the truth by replacing it with the most superificial appearance of objects realities

that is why surely, he said that by accident i could appear profound, again he is evil meaning to force the perspective of killing the depth by replacing it with the most superficial sight
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17-09-2013, 10:02 AM
RE: I am holier than thou
(17-09-2013 09:51 AM)excubitor Wrote:  
(17-09-2013 09:34 AM)cheapthrillseaker Wrote:  Showing us the right path and bringing joy?

Please explain why then homosexuality is considered an intrinsic moral evil by your own Roman Catholic Church.

How does that bring joy?
I would like to speak generally about all intrinsic moral evils rather than about homosexuality specifically.
The joy in teaching a sinner about their intrinsic moral evil that they are engaging in is that having been told and warned, they might repent, renounce their sin and turn to God. As Jesus said "Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth."

So you're not comfortable in addressing my question. How cowardly of you. If you preach it and practice it and are questioned about it, be sure to actually stand up for your beliefs no matter how absurd they are because otherwise you come out looking like your ashamed of the beliefs your Roman Catholic Church holds and don't share all of its views.

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