I am holier than thou
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17-09-2013, 10:06 AM
RE: I am holier than thou
(17-09-2013 09:51 AM)excubitor Wrote:  
(17-09-2013 09:34 AM)cheapthrillseaker Wrote:  Showing us the right path and bringing joy?

Please explain why then homosexuality is considered an intrinsic moral evil by your own Roman Catholic Church.

How does that bring joy?
I would like to speak generally about all intrinsic moral evils rather than about homosexuality specifically.
The joy in teaching a sinner about their intrinsic moral evil that they are engaging in is that having been told and warned, they might repent, renounce their sin and turn to God. As Jesus said "Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth."

OK, general discussion it is. What is sin? Drinking Beverage

" Generally speaking, the errors in religion are dangerous; those in philosophy only ridiculous."
David Hume
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17-09-2013, 10:09 AM
RE: I am holier than thou
Holy crap! Did absols make some sense in his post? Excubitor does bring some healing powers,i see

I don't really like going outside.
It's too damn "peopley" out there....
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17-09-2013, 10:09 AM
RE: I am holier than thou
(17-09-2013 09:48 AM)Philosoraptor Wrote:  It was me. And I never declared myself an atheist, which I told you already, but you don't seem to be listening.
I am declaring you as an atheist. Sorry if that seems arrogant.
(17-09-2013 09:48 AM)Philosoraptor Wrote:  ...which is irrelevant, because "holier-than-thou" is a phrase, defined as:
1. Exhibiting an attitude of superior virtue; self-righteously pious.
2. obnoxiously pious; sanctimonious.
3. excessively or hypocritically pious; "a sickening sanctimonious smile"
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/holier-than-thou
Like I said in a previous post. I acknowledge that it is a phrase used to insult theists
in an unthinking abusive manner.

(17-09-2013 09:48 AM)Philosoraptor Wrote:  
(17-09-2013 06:33 AM)excubitor Wrote:  By the grace of God the word holy describes me.

Your posts here don't reflect that. You display arrogance, self-righteousness, ignorance, and disrespect.
I think that these are just unthinking insults flung out in an abusive manner like your "holier than thou" insult was.

(17-09-2013 09:48 AM)Philosoraptor Wrote:  Who says Abel was "righteous" or in any way better than Cain? Your priest? Genesis doesn't explain why God favored Abel over Cain.
This is only one of many injustices in the Bible, because of which, as I've said, I find Christianity immoral.
Whatever God suspected of Cain was confirmed when he rose up and murdered his brother Abel and left his blood spilling into the ground. You reckon that makes Cain as righteous as Abel do you? How backward is that?

(17-09-2013 09:48 AM)Philosoraptor Wrote:  You don't seem to be willing to respond to my objections to your comments in the thread "Blind Faith is a Sickness," although I put a lot of effort in responding. This is the case, I believe, because you don't have any arguments.
I have one argument for you and that is that you are a rude person with a proclivity to shoot off unthinking labels, rhetoric and insults. Of course I have no further intention to engage with you. You put a lot of effort into being rude which is why all of my future efforts will be directed toward ignoring you.

(17-09-2013 09:48 AM)Philosoraptor Wrote:  At least you haven't presented any valid ones - you only babble about the only true church with apostolic authority, without any evidence or support. People in the 21st century don't buy empty assertions like that one anymore. Your church is history - the five Aquinas' "proofs" have been debunked, neuroscience has disproved soul, angels, demons etc., history has disproved most Old Testament myths and discovered many fabrications and interpolations in the Gospels, and the worst for you: your church can no longer keep people illiterate and ignorant, so they research the facts and find that your "product" is a scam. And of course this causes anger in some people. Would you feel anger if you found out that you've been had?
You are so deluded you actually think that this kind of diatribe is a rational argument that deserves a response. I put a lot of effort answering your earlier posts in the other thread but as you went down in flames smoking your ruin, your only defence was to lambast me with this kind of rhetoric as you dished out insults and negative reps personally directed at me. Not good enough. See ya.
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17-09-2013, 10:10 AM
RE: I am holier than thou
(17-09-2013 09:46 AM)excubitor Wrote:  ...
[Q.] How can someone be "born atheist".

[A.] Parents pass on their beliefs to their children.
...

Yeah, I'm still awake... just.

Note above that you answered your own question.

We are all born with no beliefs and then acquire them through the influences around us.

Atheism is non-belief so it is not acquired. It is the rejection of a belief.

Get that and you'll be on first base (KidC, are you proud of me for using an Murikanisationalism?) when it comes to understanding many atheists.

Thumbsup

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17-09-2013, 10:10 AM
RE: I am holier than thou
(17-09-2013 10:06 AM)KidCharlemagne1962 Wrote:  
(17-09-2013 09:51 AM)excubitor Wrote:  I would like to speak generally about all intrinsic moral evils rather than about homosexuality specifically.
The joy in teaching a sinner about their intrinsic moral evil that they are engaging in is that having been told and warned, they might repent, renounce their sin and turn to God. As Jesus said "Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth."

OK, general discussion it is. What is sin? Drinking Beverage

When something god said "don't do or think" is done or thought about doing. Unless it is done or thought about by god, then it isn't a sin because "fuck you, that's why."

I'm paraphrasing Drinking Beverage





As to the OP. You may be holier than someone who lacks any religious belief, but that is like saying that you also have more Touchdowns in baseball than someone who doesn't play your version of the game. And we don't play because your game is made-up and doesn't make sense.

“Science is simply common sense at its best, that is, rigidly accurate in observation, and merciless to fallacy in logic.”
—Thomas Henry Huxley
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17-09-2013, 10:12 AM
RE: I am holier than thou
(17-09-2013 09:59 AM)absols Wrote:  ...
while excubitor, mean to force the perspective of relative physical things as being true, which is absurd
it is the will to kill the truth by replacing it with the most superificial appearance of objects realities

that is why surely, he said that by accident i could appear profound, again he is evil meaning to force the perspective of killing the depth by replacing it with the most superficial sight

Yep - that right there; Ex0cubical is seriously into the twisty-turny - he's so delusional he can't even think straight about himself, let alone anyone else.

No wonder he thinks he's holier than thou - he has no choice. And that's what it really comes down to, isn't it - the choice to remain delusional? To keep up the pretense of delusion and to drag others into the delusion to continue to prop it up - that just contributes to the continual build up of the greatest lie ever told... and retold... and retold....

Ok, I'll stop now. Drinking Beverage

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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17-09-2013, 10:14 AM
RE: I am holier than thou
(17-09-2013 10:10 AM)DLJ Wrote:  
(17-09-2013 09:46 AM)excubitor Wrote:  ...
[Q.] How can someone be "born atheist".

[A.] Parents pass on their beliefs to their children.
...

Yeah, I'm still awake... just.

Note above that you answered your own question.

We are all born with no beliefs and then acquire them through the influences around us.

Atheism is non-belief so it is not acquired. It is the rejection of a belief.

Get that and you'll be on first base (KidC, are you proud of me for using an Murikanisationalism?) when it comes to understanding many atheists.

Thumbsup

I'm so proud I have tears in my eyes!Weeping

" Generally speaking, the errors in religion are dangerous; those in philosophy only ridiculous."
David Hume
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17-09-2013, 10:17 AM
RE: I am holier than thou
(17-09-2013 10:02 AM)cheapthrillseaker Wrote:  
(17-09-2013 09:51 AM)excubitor Wrote:  I would like to speak generally about all intrinsic moral evils rather than about homosexuality specifically.
The joy in teaching a sinner about their intrinsic moral evil that they are engaging in is that having been told and warned, they might repent, renounce their sin and turn to God. As Jesus said "Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth."

So you're not comfortable in addressing my question. How cowardly of you. If you preach it and practice it and are questioned about it, be sure to actually stand up for your beliefs no matter how absurd they are because otherwise you come out looking like your ashamed of the beliefs your Roman Catholic Church holds and don't share all of its views.
Perhaps you could invent some hate crime laws and then force Christians to walk into them with taunts of cowardice.
Personally I do believe that homosexuality is an intrinsic moral evil but you did not ask for my personal belief you asked for confirmation of what the Roman Catholic Church teaches.

So here is what the church teaches which is what I also believe.

Chastity and homosexuality

2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,141 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."142 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.
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17-09-2013, 10:19 AM
RE: I am holier than thou
(17-09-2013 09:11 AM)excubitor Wrote:  
(17-09-2013 08:37 AM)DLJ Wrote:  Full marks for honesty. Thank you.

In your journeys around atheist byways of the internet did you consider that word "truth"?

You say "This is because I speak the truth and most people love lies."
Putting your best 'empathy' hat on for a moment, can you imagine how that comes across to a person who has decided upon a different 'truth' through what they believe to be thorough research, consideration, reflection on subjects as diverse as scripture, ancient myth history, biology, physics, chemistry or indeed by introspection or even revelation?
No atheist has ever said this to me because they don't actually believe in anything at all. They don't think in terms of truth or lies. They have a vague notion that they should think a certain way because that is the most probable case given the available data and the current understanding of the data. However as soon as the data changes or a better theory presents itself they happily change what they formerly thought to some new idea. They invest no personal stake in "truth" as a believer might, for the simple reason that they are not believers, they are unbelievers.

Please don't generalize what atheists believe or don't; that is presumptuous and arrogant.

Of course I think in terms of truth and lies, but I primarily think and work in terms of evidence. You seem to imply that looking at evidence and deciding what is probably true is a bad thing. Here we part ways.

You seem to imply that there are absolute truths which trump evidence; no such truth has ever been shown to exist, regardless of your declarations.

Of course I will change what I accept is true based on new evidence - that is rational thinking. And I don't accept something as true without evidence - that is healthy skepticism.

Quote:
(17-09-2013 08:37 AM)DLJ Wrote:  Does it seem as arrogant as an atheist saying to you that they know the truth and you believe lies?
Does saying that people "love lies" not seem like an insult? When I insult someone here, which I often do, I expect to be mocked. It's why I like this place, actually.
I am not making any personal insult to any particular person. I am making a generalisation that atheists love lies and hate the truth. This is often a kind of vague motivation of the inward man that the atheist is not really aware is driving him, but there are some atheists who actively lie and who deliberately withhold the truth from others. These are very evil people who deceive and mislead others. Many of these evil liars are teachers of history, geology, astronomy, biology and other disciplines which are diametrically opposed to the notion of God and which deliberately assemble lies to keep their students in a state of darkness and deception. Why would I say that I am of the light if I did not expose to you those who are in the darkness?

Your generalization that atheists love lies and hate truth is insultingly stupid, completely unsupported by any evidence. You are demonizing atheists for your own, dishonest purposes. I am diametrically opposed to your views - it is religion that strives to keep people in darkness.

Quote:
(17-09-2013 08:37 AM)DLJ Wrote:  btw, correct spelling of "generalisation". You were obviously raised on the right side of the Atlantic. Thumbsup

More interestingly, you say, "It is clear to me that this abuse is generally motivated by anger, resentment against God, religion, the church or authority figures who were considered to be religious which the atheist then transfers onto believers in God who he/she encounters."

Well, I can't speak for whoever you are referring to but 'anger' or at least 'frustration' might be right... with religion / church / authority figures at any rate. This could be true.
But not anger towards any deity.

That would be like me saying I am angry with Zeus or the Easter Bunny or Unicorns. Big Grin

I like unicorns.
Not so. To equate the belief in God with belief in unicorns, zeus or the Easter bunny is a common canard. Billions of people around the world believe in God and most of our western culture of music, art, society and morality has its origins in the practice of the Christian religion. The first book ever printed was a Bible. I would say that the vast majority of atheists originally believed in God (even though they did not believe in the tooth fairy). They then rejected God and became atheists. On the other hand agnostics generally grew up with no teaching or instruction about God so they had no notion of God to reject. Such men are very impassive about God. Atheists however have generally made conscious and direct decisions to reject God and have become active disbelievers in God.

In many ways this active disbelief and rejection of God is the other side of the coin of their former belief and acceptance of God. The greater the love for God that they had when they believed, the greater the hatred and rejection of God is when they turn from that belief and reject God. Disbelief is not really an absence of belief, it is rather an active decision to not believe. Disbelief is a direct attack and challenge of God which taken to its extreme ends in relegating God to the same status as the easter bunny. Such thinking is the greatest insult that can be possibly be mustered against God.

I don't actively reject your god, I simply don't accept your assertions as you lack evidence.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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17-09-2013, 10:20 AM
RE: I am holier than thou
"....homosexuality is an intrinsic moral evil...."

What a sad world you live in where love is considered evil.

“Science is simply common sense at its best, that is, rigidly accurate in observation, and merciless to fallacy in logic.”
—Thomas Henry Huxley
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