I am not proud to be an American
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23-01-2015, 05:58 PM
RE: I am not proud to be an American
"If you are proud of your nationality just for the sake of it then it does mean that you are can be more easily manipulated by the powers that be."

How very true... Many Germans learned this the hard way.......

No, I've never lived outside the US, but have lived in Michigan, California and Alaska - and have visited most of the others. And yes, travel does instill appreciation...

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23-01-2015, 06:01 PM
RE: I am not proud to be an American
Who is proud to be an american? This country is one of the worst first world. Though it is not bad, it should get better(but it won't because jesus and obama and shit)

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23-01-2015, 06:01 PM
RE: I am not proud to be an American
(23-01-2015 05:50 PM)Mathilda Wrote:  With regard to national pride, it's true that you have more to be proud of if you have worked at it and achieved it, but there is still a (lesser) case for being proud of your nationality. First there's being proud of your heritage which means that you are more likely to maintain it. Culture and heritage are things that you can easily take for granted all the time you have it. Secondly, the fact that every culture is made up a mixture of good and bad and if you recognise this then a certain sense of pride in the good parts can be a healthy way of exploiting the advantages it gives you.

Notwithstanding my recognition of the sentiment, I can't sensu stricto say pride is quite the right word, there...

Certainly it's the dominant colloquial use, to be sure, but "recognition" or "awareness" would seem to better convey the sentiment. Circumstantial gratitude without self-awareness is just so... religious.

No, I'm not sure what point I'm getting at either.

(23-01-2015 05:50 PM)Mathilda Wrote:  On the other hand, it's also good to recognise when the cultural values that you were raised in do not match your own personal values. Pride in your nationality then becomes far less meaningful. If you are proud of your nationality just for the sake of it then it does mean that you are can be more easily manipulated by the powers that be.

Indeed - that's just reactionary tribalism. Which feels easy to identify and condemn in others, but of course as homo sapiens we're more than all heir to it.

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23-01-2015, 06:55 PM
RE: I am not proud to be an American
When I was 17 I traveled across Europe, including many eastern block countries (back in the cold war). The "official tour" lasted a month, but I was there for another month and spent the rest of the time traveling around with some friends.

I saw things very differently when I returned.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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23-01-2015, 08:19 PM
RE: I am not proud to be an American
Quote:I'm glad I'm one. I know of no other place I'd rather live.

How about Canada, England, Scotland, Ireland, Isle of Man (because why not?), France, Germany, Italy, Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Belgium, Netherlands, Spain, Portugal, Australia, New Zealand, Japan, South Korea, Singapore, Hong Kong, South Africa, Caymans, Iceland, Switzerland, San Marino (they still have a crossbow corp, badass? I think so), Austria, Liechtenstein, Andorra, Monaco or Luxembourg?

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23-01-2015, 08:21 PM
RE: I am not proud to be an American
(23-01-2015 06:01 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(23-01-2015 05:50 PM)Mathilda Wrote:  With regard to national pride, it's true that you have more to be proud of if you have worked at it and achieved it, but there is still a (lesser) case for being proud of your nationality. First there's being proud of your heritage which means that you are more likely to maintain it. Culture and heritage are things that you can easily take for granted all the time you have it. Secondly, the fact that every culture is made up a mixture of good and bad and if you recognise this then a certain sense of pride in the good parts can be a healthy way of exploiting the advantages it gives you.

Notwithstanding my recognition of the sentiment, I can't sensu stricto say pride is quite the right word, there...

Certainly it's the dominant colloquial use, to be sure, but "recognition" or "awareness" would seem to better convey the sentiment. Circumstantial gratitude without self-awareness is just so... religious.

No, I'm not sure what point I'm getting at either.

(23-01-2015 05:50 PM)Mathilda Wrote:  On the other hand, it's also good to recognise when the cultural values that you were raised in do not match your own personal values. Pride in your nationality then becomes far less meaningful. If you are proud of your nationality just for the sake of it then it does mean that you are can be more easily manipulated by the powers that be.

Indeed - that's just reactionary tribalism. Which feels easy to identify and condemn in others, but of course as homo sapiens we're more than all heir to it.

Tribalism is all to easy to fall into....

"My country", "My people", "My religion", "My football team".... ect ect.....

People simply love to be "part of something", and not "the other".....

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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23-01-2015, 08:22 PM
RE: I am not proud to be an American
(23-01-2015 06:01 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(23-01-2015 05:50 PM)Mathilda Wrote:  With regard to national pride, it's true that you have more to be proud of if you have worked at it and achieved it, but there is still a (lesser) case for being proud of your nationality. First there's being proud of your heritage which means that you are more likely to maintain it. Culture and heritage are things that you can easily take for granted all the time you have it. Secondly, the fact that every culture is made up a mixture of good and bad and if you recognise this then a certain sense of pride in the good parts can be a healthy way of exploiting the advantages it gives you.

Notwithstanding my recognition of the sentiment, I can't sensu stricto say pride is quite the right word, there...

Certainly it's the dominant colloquial use, to be sure, but "recognition" or "awareness" would seem to better convey the sentiment. Circumstantial gratitude without self-awareness is just so... religious.

No, I'm not sure what point I'm getting at either.

(23-01-2015 05:50 PM)Mathilda Wrote:  On the other hand, it's also good to recognise when the cultural values that you were raised in do not match your own personal values. Pride in your nationality then becomes far less meaningful. If you are proud of your nationality just for the sake of it then it does mean that you are can be more easily manipulated by the powers that be.

Indeed - that's just reactionary tribalism. Which feels easy to identify and condemn in others, but of course as homo sapiens we're more than all heir to it.

Tribalism is all too easy to fall into....

"My country", "My people", "My religion", "My football team".... ect ect.....

People simply love to be "part of something", and not "the other".....

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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23-01-2015, 08:24 PM
RE: I am not proud to be an American
(23-01-2015 08:19 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  
Quote:I'm glad I'm one. I know of no other place I'd rather live.

How about Canada, England, Scotland, Ireland, Isle of Man (because why not?), France, Germany, Italy, Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Belgium, Netherlands, Spain, Portugal, Australia, New Zealand, Japan, South Korea, Singapore, Hong Kong, South Africa, Caymans, Iceland, Switzerland, San Marino (they still have a crossbow corp, badass? I think so), Austria, Liechtenstein, Andorra, Monaco or Luxembourg?

The Swiss are simply too precise, orderly, and good looking not to love......

Smile

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The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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23-01-2015, 08:24 PM
RE: I am not proud to be an American
I am a proud German and actualy really found my patriotism in the past few years.

Mainly because we seem to be the only country on this fucking continent that tries to learn something from history.

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23-01-2015, 08:49 PM
RE: I am not proud to be an American
(23-01-2015 05:27 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  Pride in something should require more than an accident of birth.

Fuck pride.

#sigh
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