I am not proud to be an American
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24-01-2015, 12:56 PM
RE: I am not proud to be an American
(24-01-2015 12:16 PM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  It's just...the whole "if you don't like it, leave" attitude is so ignorant. It's embarrassing. I like America. I think it's a great place to live. But it's not the best country in the world. We are not #1 in education, health care, or even freedom. I am not interested in standing around with my eyes closed and my fingers in my ears chanting "America is number one. America is number one."
I am much more inclined to speak out against the things I think are wrong and things I want to see changed. If you want to call that "hating America" you are mistaken. Maybe, I care about this country enough to be honest about things that need fixing. Maybe, I care enough to think we should be striving to actually be number 1 instead of pretending we already are. Maybe, I look at history and imagine what would have become of this country if the whole the "if you don't like it, leave" attitude was the response to anti slavery talk, or people who wanted women's rights. Every privilege we enjoy is because someone stood up and said this is something I don't like about America, let's change it, not this is something I don't like so I guess I'll just leave.
America is awesome, but that doesn't mean it's perfect. And like I said, being proud to be an American is a silly notion. I am proud of things I accomplished, and being born isn't really an accomplishment to me.


ETA: I don't think that you are ignorant. I just hate to hear someone I respect and consider intelligent saying things I expect to hear from Uncle Si.

It's not ignorant to say - if you don't like it you can leave OR work toward the changes you want to see - which is what I said.

If all a person intends to do is bitch, their efforts are wasted.

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24-01-2015, 01:12 PM
RE: I am not proud to be an American
(24-01-2015 09:24 AM)Vosur Wrote:  
(24-01-2015 09:06 AM)Chas Wrote:  I can't imagine why it would cost several thousand dollars. Consider
It used to cost $450, but the US government increased the price to a hefty $2,350 in 2014.

(24-01-2015 09:06 AM)Chas Wrote:  But is it really necessary? I recall that those tax statutes only functionally apply to large earnings, investments, and inheritance. Small change gets a pass.
Germany (unfortunately) requires foreigners to renounce all of their other citizenships before they can become German citizens. There are some exceptions to this rule and she may or may not qualify for one of them. The description is rather vague, stating that an exception can be made if renouncing one's citizenship would require one to "pay an unreasonably high amount of money." How high is "unreasonably high"? I'm not sure. Laugh out load

You might want to check to see what renunciation means in that context. Is it just a verbal or written pledge? Would they actually require the formal renunciation to whatever other country?

Canada stopped requiring renunciation with Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms (Constitution Act, 1982). The U.S. has made it easier to have dual citizenship.

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24-01-2015, 01:18 PM
RE: I am not proud to be an American
I am happy to be a Canadian living in the U.S.

I would likely be happy the other way around.

I feel a loyalty to both countries, a love of both countries.
Neither of them has a spotless history. Both promote a worthy ideal but fail too often to live up to it.

I would happily live in and be loyal to any of a number of countries, e.g. Bermuda, U.K., Ireland, Denmark, ... Pretty much any of the Western democracies.

But "my country right or wrong"? Fuck that.

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24-01-2015, 01:20 PM
RE: I am not proud to be an American
(24-01-2015 12:55 PM)yakherder Wrote:  
(24-01-2015 12:47 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  to "affect change" we need to change the politics in this country, but the odds of an openly atheist candidate getting voted into office is about the same odds of me winning the mr olympia body building contest...zero.

And if an atheist did get elected they'd probably be part of the anti uniform demographic, as that demographic ironically seems to be the least likely to have seen the reality of the world beyond their bubble even if they could theoretically have the potential to see the bigger picture.

I agree, and again I will repeat my point that those with the biggest mouths about any specific subject, tend to know the least about it.

Last year I think it was some congress woman was spouting off about how the military retirement system needed to be overhauled, that "it is ridiculous you can serve 20 years, and then retire and get paid a percentage of your pay for life, no other industry does that".....yeah...about that, under the congressional retirement systyem, they are vested at 5 years and can retire and get a check every month, if they hit 20 years, they get a much bigger check every month...sooooo pot/kettle? Speaking of service, how much time did you do in combat mrs congresswoman? How much time away from family over the years? How much do you make per year again? How many duty days where you are up 24 hours a day every 4/6/8 days, 365 a year have you done? how much have you dealt with prolonged sleep deprivation, combat rations, lack of a shower, etc for weeks, months while sleeping in the sand in a foreign country not knowing if you will be alive to wake up...you cant compare your posh lifestyle of having your ass kissed daily by lobbyists and staff to serving in the military for 20 plus years, so shut the fuck up mrs congressswoman and go back to ensuring washington stays in a quagmire refusing to fix this country while you bitch about party politics.

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"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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24-01-2015, 06:07 PM
RE: I am not proud to be an American
(24-01-2015 06:09 AM)Vosur Wrote:  
(24-01-2015 05:38 AM)Chas Wrote:  Not true. Once citizenship of another country is obtained, the financial hold is ended.
No, that's not true. You need to formally renounce your U.S. citizenship (which costs several thousand dollars) before the IRS finally leaves you alone. The US is the only country on the planet (apart from one tiny country in Africa) that taxes people based on citizenship, as opposed to residency, which is both completely unethical and idiotic.

As with anything, that happens for reasons. Those reasons are not lol tyranny.

Most of the US tax code is half-assed patches to catch tax evasion post-hoc. The statutes in question tellingly only apply to those whose net worth is in millions and even then there are many ancillary conditions.

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24-01-2015, 06:10 PM
RE: I am not proud to be an American
(24-01-2015 01:20 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  I agree, and again I will repeat my point that those with the biggest mouths about any specific subject, tend to know the least about it.

That is a very convenient way to ignore people...

It has been my experience that those who are loudest are generally those who either feel the greatest need to be heard or who are otherwise least likely to be listened to. Such circumstances rarely leave room for any nuance ab initio.

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24-01-2015, 07:42 PM
RE: I am not proud to be an American
It's just that "I'm proud to be an American" is so easily turned into mindless jingoism, leading many to conclude—despite the fact that they despise a good half or more of their country-mates—that anything done in America's name is great.

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24-01-2015, 07:42 PM
RE: I am not proud to be an American
Quote:Most of the US tax code is half-assed patches to catch tax evasion post-hoc. The statutes in question tellingly only apply to those whose net worth is in millions and even then there are many ancillary conditions.


Most of the US Tax Code is special rules for business criminal assholes so they can write off things without it being tax evasion.

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24-01-2015, 07:52 PM (This post was last modified: 24-01-2015 08:01 PM by goodwithoutgod.)
RE: I am not proud to be an American
(24-01-2015 06:10 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(24-01-2015 01:20 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  I agree, and again I will repeat my point that those with the biggest mouths about any specific subject, tend to know the least about it.

That is a very convenient way to ignore people...

It has been my experience that those who are loudest are generally those who either feel the greatest need to be heard or who are otherwise least likely to be listened to. Such circumstances rarely leave room for any nuance ab initio.

Oh I didn't say or imply that I ignore them, I never shy away from a confrontation, part of my psychological makeup i suppose, I refuse to backdown, not always a smart thing, but knowing ones weaknesses is half the battle Smile

example of my point: like some religious folks who jump up and down screaming about their faith and how we are going to hell, yet know little to nothing about the very faith they purport to hold so dear...

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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24-01-2015, 08:10 PM
RE: I am not proud to be an American
(24-01-2015 07:52 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  
(24-01-2015 06:10 PM)cjlr Wrote:  That is a very convenient way to ignore people...

It has been my experience that those who are loudest are generally those who either feel the greatest need to be heard or who are otherwise least likely to be listened to. Such circumstances rarely leave room for any nuance ab initio.

Oh I didn't say or imply that I ignore them, I never shy away from a confrontation, part of my psychological makeup i suppose, I refuse to backdown, not always a smart thing, but knowing ones weaknesses is half the battle Smile

example of my point: like some religious folks who jump up and down screaming about their faith and how we are going to hell, yet know little to nothing about the very faith they purport to hold so dear...

Rather, my point was that in light of strong motivation, it is the motivation itself that deserves being addressed. Holding an opinion one finds corroboration for it; we're all guilty of that. The initial why is the point of interest.

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