I am now churchless.
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
20-04-2013, 06:05 AM
RE: I am now churchless.
(20-04-2013 05:35 AM)Hafnof Wrote:  ...
but I do think relationships matter.
...

Agreed.

I have a loyalty card with every one of my girlfriends.

Drinking Beverage

Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
20-04-2013, 06:25 AM
RE: I am now churchless.
(20-04-2013 06:05 AM)DLJ Wrote:  
(20-04-2013 05:35 AM)Hafnof Wrote:  ...
but I do think relationships matter.
...

Agreed.

I have a loyalty card with every one of my girlfriends.

Drinking Beverage

Relationships do matter - but there are unhealthy relationships too, relationships that wear you down with drama and internal or external turmoil and it is best to get rid of those.

Good relationships matter and warrant giving of your time and energy.
Bad relationships can fester on you like tumors.

Staying in any relationship just to preserve the status quo and avoid change is very unwise.

Change may be uncomfortable or even hurt - but without change there is no growth.

I think KC will end up getting a lot out of all this!

[Image: dobie.png]

Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Dom's post
20-04-2013, 06:34 AM
RE: I am now churchless.
(20-04-2013 06:25 AM)Dom Wrote:  ...
I think KC will end up getting a lot out of all this!

My take-away so far... I'm reading between the lines... KC's main relationships (the ones that really matter) are unaffected (or have been strengthened, perhaps).

Plenty of loyalty within the family unit.

Thumbsup

Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like DLJ's post
20-04-2013, 02:04 PM
 
RE: I am now churchless.
(20-04-2013 05:09 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Since I believe in absolute predestination (God has preplanned and controls every bit of minutia), I don't think that we have a choice to evangelize or not. I think God plans that and uses it according to His purpose.

I think God uses evangelism... plans for a person to do it... then prepares the recipient... then if it's that person's time for a regeneration, God uses the tool of evangelism.

To me, it's just another way God uses for regeneration.

Without God, evangelism is pointless... impossible even. So, it's not a matter of not evangelizing... because I couldn't not evangelize if I wanted to if God had planned that for me since I can't defy God's predestination.

I think other Christians don't fully understand a Calvinists point of view of evangelizing... we do it because it's God's predestined plan for us to do it... because... it might be the way God chooses for someone to be regenerated. We can't choose against it.

Make sense?

Acutally, yes. As I sit here and read what you wrote I'm struck with the fact that monism (that is if God is the fundamental monistic consciousness)...I can hardly bring myself to say it...requires absolute predeterminism. And this is kind of rocking my boat, right now. I hadn't realized this before.

And right after I wrote this post to you. I went to work, and I opened my Bible (VGJC) and the very next verse there was for me to read...I kid you not! was this:

And Mary asked Him, “Lord, is everybody to be saved or only a few?”
And Jesus said, “The Father chooses one from a thousand and two from ten thousand and they stand together as a single one.

(VGJC 33:12-13)

People will scoff, but to me, I consider that a miracle. I had no idea that verse was the next verse I would read when I asked you these questions. So, I am rocked again, because the very bible I use states very clearly with a disciple asking point blank and Jesus answering directly.


Quote:I believe that there is no "might". There are those chosen for salvation and damnation.

I can see that. I mean, people might ask why God would do it, but he would do it for the elect. In other words, those people pre-chosen for damnation exist for some reason for the sake of the elect.

Quote:Yep. Salvation is becoming one with Christ - the Almighty God. Something we can never do on our own, which is why God as to choose us and prepare us.

I completely agree with that statement. 100%

Quote:If God's plan for Christ was infinite (supported by omniscience), then Christnhad to do what He did to fulfill the plan that was set up. Why God set it up that way can't be answered, I think.

Indeed. As with almost every other aspect of the universe, God did it one way instead of another, and ultimately, we aren't going to know "why?" If there is a progression of souls after death gradually leading to a oneness with God, then we might know, but of course, if that's the case, "we" wouldn't exist anymore, because we'd have the mind of God. So again, only God would know.

Sorry for the sophmoric chain of thinking there.Blush

Quote:Jesus was a crucial link in God's plan for salvation of the elect for all time. That was the point of Jesus... not that people would choose Him, but that the elect would has His righteousness imputed on them.

I completely agree with that statement.


Quote:Again it's simply an unavoidable tool for us. God uses us. He uses us to evangelize, and we have no say-so in the matter.

Yes, I see that. I see it strongly enough, that if there is anything in the Veridican Articles of Faith that is contradictory to that, I will change the Articles of Faith by fiat. But I don't think there is. If there is it would only be the Salvation article. Let me look...

No not at all. In fact, the entire articles seem to be talking only to an "elect" group of people anyway.

Even article 15, Evangelism, which reads:

We believe it is our duty to present the Gospel of Jesus Christ to whoever will listen in hopes the seed of the Word of God will grow within them and transform them into Christ. We evangelize because we love our fellow human being, even as God loves us all, therefore we evangelize with fervor, commitment, and by any means necessary.

It's only describing what we do--our motivation--our obedience to God--the "whoever will listen" clause is answered very simply: they are the "elect."

Quote:The good part about this is that God has planned all evangelism... so none of it is a waste. There is a reason for it all.

Hope this helps, Ed.

Very well said, and it has helped me a great deal. It's like a weight has been lifted, an impossibly heavy weight: I don't have to save anyone. All I have to do is what God has designed me to do, and He'll take it from there.

I have come to realize, that Veridicanism, like Calvinism, does support pre-election and predestination. Interesting. Very interesting. Consider
Quote this message in a reply
20-04-2013, 02:46 PM
RE: I am now churchless.
Alright, you two. Break it up.

[Image: klingon_zps7e68578a.jpg]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like houseofcantor's post
20-04-2013, 02:50 PM
RE: I am now churchless.
(20-04-2013 02:46 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  Alright, you two. Break it up.

It's like watching you and Vera. Evil_monster

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
~Izel
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
20-04-2013, 03:20 PM
RE: I am now churchless.
Geez, these were 10 minutes I'll never get back. Shocking

[Image: dobie.png]

Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Dom's post
20-04-2013, 03:34 PM
RE: I am now churchless.
(20-04-2013 03:20 PM)Dom Wrote:  Geez, these were 10 minutes I'll never get back. Shocking

Gotta trick for you, *don't read long posts*. Saves a helluva lot of time.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like morondog's post
20-04-2013, 04:04 PM
 
RE: I am now churchless.
Atheists have no business even reading what KC and I discuss theologically. It is not for you.
Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Egor's post
20-04-2013, 04:27 PM
RE: I am now churchless.
(20-04-2013 04:04 PM)Egor Wrote:  Atheists have no business even reading what KC and I discuss theologically. It is not for you.

If atheists are reading what we wrote, that was planned by God. For whatever reason that may be.

I'm glad you understand Calvinism a little better. Most denominations don't know us and hate us because they've always been told to hate us.

[Image: dog-shaking.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: