I am only slightly appalled that the admins have said nothing still, I'm done waiting
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16-10-2014, 01:29 PM
RE: I am only slightly appalled that the admins have said nothing still, I'm done waiting
(16-10-2014 01:11 PM)lucradis Wrote:  Stark was a great admin at the time. He wouldn't fit now. This forum has changed a ton since he was admin. He did his duty in a way that everyone who is complaining would hate.

He always said that he didn't want to do things the way people now want them done but he was of the belief that the forum leadership would change with the temperature of the forum.

He's a great guy for all I know of him, but he is a much more laid back guy then the forum seems to want.


Why isnt Stark a good fit now? I love Stark. If DLJ wasnt kidding...and doesn't want it.....can we have Stark (&chas)
?????????

When I want your opinion I'll read your entrails.
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16-10-2014, 01:36 PM (This post was last modified: 16-10-2014 01:58 PM by DLJ.)
RE: I am only slightly appalled
(16-10-2014 11:26 AM)Stark Raving Wrote:  Has Chas or DLJ weighed in on their qualifications as admin? If I recall correctly, it was a struggle just getting DLJ to accept the mod role.

You didn't offer a big enough bribe. Tongue

Actually, I offered my services (yes, belatedly, I know) in the attempt to head off a thing (which, as it turned out, I was powerless to prevent).

Witchy,
I appreciate the vote of confidence... I really do. I am more than flattered.
But no, I don't want the job. Revs is right. By nature, I'm a consultant / confidante / conciliary not a leader. I'd only do it if there was no better alternative.

And there are lots of better alternatives.

I agree that the current staff could use help and so does Dark Light. He has many good ideas but recent events came at time when his real life had to take priority.

I'm not in the inner circle but my understanding is that both he and Aurora were working very hard on planning and preparing many new good things.

The problem has been (like with any (dis)organisation any of us could name) ... time / prioritisation issues / lack of processes / etc. etc. and in the end, insufficient communication... because real life got in the way.

An example of lack of process is shown in this very thread. I woke yesterday morning to find this thread already steaming towards 200 posts and started reading.
My very first thought was "Ah! Losty is calling for an MPR. Good idea." My second thought, "Nah! Too late."

An MPR is, as all the IT Managers out there will know, a Major Problem Review. It should (according to the guide books) be carried out a few days after a melt-down. Not too soon, while emotions are still raw and not too late so that those involved have forgotten what happened.
It involves a chronological analysis (what happened, when) and then examining...
- Those things that were done correctly
- Those things that were done wrong
- What could be done better in the future
- How to prevent recurrence
- Any third party responsibility and follow-up actions needed

Dark Light is aware of this and also a million other process-related things that could be done given time and resources which are of course all voluntary.

Speaking not as a Mod but just as a member of TTA, I'd like to see more use being made of the enthusiasm of newbs, when the fire in the belly is still aflame, and the wisdom of the retirees, who have moved into that state of calm that comes after the sense of injustice of childhood indoctrination has subsided a little.

There are so many good and passionate people here who could be doing great things... whether it's GWoG and Bucky becoming custodians of the TTA Library or Atothetheist and FreeThought mobilising the yoof with Twitter campaigns against the Aussie government's school chaplains fiasco... stuff like that.

On a positive note, it's good to see Luc and Stark and FSM returning. I hope you guys stick around. Missed ya.

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16-10-2014, 02:28 PM
RE: I am only slightly appalled that the admins have said nothing still, I'm done waiting
DLJ Wrote:The problem has been (like with any (dis)organisation any of us could name) ... time / prioritisation issues / lack of processes / etc. etc. and in the end, insufficient communication... because real life got in the way.

An example of lack of process is shown in this very thread. I woke yesterday morning to find this thread already steaming towards 200 posts and started reading.
My very first thought was "Ah! Losty is calling for an MPR. Good idea." My second thought, "Nah! Too late."

An MPR is, as all the IT Managers out there will know, a Major Problem Review. It should (according to the guide books) be carried out a few days after a melt-down. Not too soon, while emotions are still raw and not too late so that those involved have forgotten what happened.
It involves a chronological analysis (what happened, when) and then examining...
- Those things that were done correctly
- Those things that were done wrong
- What could be done better in the future
- How to prevent recurrence
- Any third party responsibility and follow-up actions needed


Perhaps I should have called for this sooner, but I was being silly thinking that it would have been done without the request. I have learned since that we had one inactive admin, one admin who was apparently on vacation the entire time, supermods who did a beautiful job of sock fighting, one supermod who was willing to speak up with his opinion and failed miserable at sharing it in a way that didn't seem completely insulting not only to myself but to everyone who was paying attention (I love you Hughsie Heart ), and an entire rest of the forum team tied and gagged seemingly not allowed to tell anyone what was going on or how they even felt about it personally as just a member of the forum. When no one tells us anything we are forced to try our best to make educated guesses about what's going on behind the scenes.


Regardless of whether or not it's too late, I would still like to see the MPR. So far all I have are bits and pieces from several people (most who for some reason want to remain anonymous, that's not suspicious), most who I have no idea whether or not they even have idea what they're talking about, and I've never really been that good at puzzles.

Swing with me a while, we can listen to the birds call, we can keep each other warm.
Swing with me forever, we can count up every flower, we can weather every storm.
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16-10-2014, 02:35 PM
RE: I am only slightly appalled that the admins have said nothing still, I'm done waiting
Hmm Consider ... MPR ... we seem to naturally have these pow-wows after a meltdown ... a sort of debriefing. I think it's good - it seems to help everyone get things into perspective. Thumbsup

***
I always enjoy seeing Luc and Starky pop in and ... I'm very surprised and pleased to see Scotty after such a long time! Smile Hope you guys stick around a bit. It really hasn't been as dramatic as it seems. You know how it can get with a maniac on the loose. Shy
***
I thought Dark Light was already in charge. Was that going to be a temporary thing?

As for another Admin or new Admin; it's a shit job. Confused I wouldn't want to foist it on anyone who doesn't want it ... but frankly (and most importantly), I wouldn't want to suffer through it with anyone who does want it... if you get my drift. Wink

That said... I like Moms. She's pretty much got it all going on. Smile

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16-10-2014, 03:43 PM
RE: I am only slightly appalled that the admins have said nothing still, I'm done waiting
(16-10-2014 02:28 PM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  I have learned since that we had one inactive admin, one admin who was apparently on vacation the entire time,

Just so there aren't any misconceptions, DL has been on vacation during the time you created this thread.

Both Admins were here when this was going on in in very late July (when he joined) to early September (when he was permanently banned).


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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16-10-2014, 03:49 PM
RE: I am only slightly appalled that the admins have said nothing still, I'm done waiting
(16-10-2014 03:43 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(16-10-2014 02:28 PM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  I have learned since that we had one inactive admin, one admin who was apparently on vacation the entire time,

Just so there aren't any misconceptions, DL has been on vacation during the time you created this thread.

Both Admins were here when this was going on in in very late July (when he joined) to early September (when he was permanently banned).

That seems worse, actually. Consider

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16-10-2014, 03:57 PM
RE: I am only slightly appalled
(16-10-2014 02:28 PM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  ...
Regardless of whether or not it's too late, I would still like to see the MPR.
...

It's not too late. But it's a seriously huge undertaking.

To get to the truth, side-step any potential re-writing of history and sift perceptions from reality, it would involve Deep (who is supposed to be relaxing, buried under pretty girls (or boys (or boy-girls)) in Thailand) creating a report of all posts (visible on the forum and those too in the 'management only' section) all related PMs (there are privacy issues there) and the Rep lists... with time-stamps and stuff.

Also collecting evidence from skype conversations (verbal and written) and for all I know, phone calls too and also interviewing all involved.

You can see the problems, right?

We certainly need to find a way to deal with this situation if (more likely when) it happens again but right now, we're simply not sufficiently resourced to be able to do it.

Another question of course, is whether, in this kind of situation, a ban is actually the solution. People have been saying that he was not banned quickly enough and that he should not have been allowed to join in the first place but a stalker does not need to be a member of the forum to be able to read what we write. So there are wider issues to consider than just how the forum team reacted.

So what I think I'm asking for, is to allow Dark some space to first finish his off-forum duties and when he comes back, give him the chance to think things though getting advice from all/any as necessary and then put forward a proposal of how to handle this... not a quick fix but a longer term solution.

It could well involve major changes. The philosopher king / benign dictator model worked for Stark but as he himself pointed out when he stepped down it wouldn't work now. A 'congress' model, perhaps having something like a school governing body has been suggested and there might be other alternatives. Who knows?

We have some guidance from Seth, we have limited resources (all volunteers), we have growing numbers and we have to work out a way (a governance model) that can balance the realistion of benefits vs. risks vs. resource constraints for all stakeholders for now and in the future.

Discussions are happening but things won't happen overnight.

Meanwhile, everyone, let's be careful out there.

[Image: hey-lets-be-careful-out-there-thumb.jpg]

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16-10-2014, 04:01 PM
RE: I am only slightly appalled that the admins have said nothing still, I'm done waiting
(16-10-2014 01:29 PM)WitchSabrina Wrote:  Why isnt Stark a good fit now? I love Stark. If DLJ wasnt kidding...and doesn't want it.....can we have Stark (&chas)
?????????

I like stark. I even enjoyed moderating when he was admin. But his style of sit back and it will all be fine only works when a forum is small enough that it doesn't attract toxic members.

Every ft since has been trying to emulate that style. It does have its good points like allowing for unpopular opinions, but it does nothing to help when a situation like the one that happened to Losty, where the stalking extended to affecting her life outside of the forum. It took the actions of the admins on another forum to finally put a stop to something which should have been remedied here, but nothing was done. And that is very disturbing.

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16-10-2014, 04:07 PM
RE: I am only slightly appalled that the admins have said nothing still, I'm done waiting
(16-10-2014 03:57 PM)DLJ Wrote:  
(16-10-2014 02:28 PM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  ...
Regardless of whether or not it's too late, I would still like to see the MPR.
...

It's not too late. But it's a seriously huge undertaking.

To get to the truth, side-step any potential re-writing of history and sift perceptions from reality, it would involve Deep (who is supposed to be relaxing, buried under pretty girls (or boys (or boy-girls)) in Thailand) creating a report of all posts (visible on the forum and those too in the 'management only' section) all related PMs (there are privacy issues there) and the Rep lists... with time-stamps and stuff.

Also collecting evidence from skype conversations (verbal and written) and for all I know, phone calls too and also interviewing all involved.

You can see the problems, right?

We certainly need to find a way to deal with this situation if (more likely when) it happens again but right now, we're simply not sufficiently resourced to be able to do it.

Another question of course, is whether, in this kind of situation, a ban is actually the solution. People have been saying that he was not banned quickly enough and that he should not have been allowed to join in the first place but a stalker does not need to be a member of the forum to be able to read what we write. So there are wider issues to consider than just how the forum team reacted.

So what I think I'm asking for, is to allow Dark some space to first finish his off-forum duties and when he comes back, give him the chance to think things though getting advice from all/any as necessary and then put forward a proposal of how to handle this... not a quick fix but a longer term solution.

It could well involve major changes. The philosopher king / benign dictator model worked for Stark but as he himself pointed out when he stepped down it wouldn't work now. A 'congress' model, perhaps having something like a school governing body has been suggested and there might be other alternatives. Who knows?

We have some guidance from Seth, we have limited resources (all volunteers), we have growing numbers and we have to work out a way (a governance model) that can balance the realistion of benefits vs. risks vs. resource constraints for all stakeholders for now and in the future.

Discussions are happening but things won't happen overnight.

Meanwhile, everyone, let's be careful out there.

[Image: hey-lets-be-careful-out-there-thumb.jpg]

Clown boy's posts are so altered from the original that I don't see what good they are. The remedy of delete, edit, and clean up makes it hard to show what kind of things he really said on this forum.

At this point, we can go back and forth forever. The team is going to stand up for the team. The members want answers and remedies for the future. That's not going to happen until and if Dark responds. At that point we can proceed with some sort of plan. Till then everyone is just pissing in the wind.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF
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16-10-2014, 04:11 PM
RE: I am only slightly appalled that the admins have said nothing still, I'm done waiting
(16-10-2014 03:43 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(16-10-2014 02:28 PM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  I have learned since that we had one inactive admin, one admin who was apparently on vacation the entire time,

Just so there aren't any misconceptions, DL has been on vacation during the time you created this thread.

Both Admins were here when this was going on in in very late July (when he joined) to early September (when he was permanently banned).

Sorry Momsie, I was being sarcastic. Perhaps that was uncalled for. Sometimes I let my emotions get the best of me.

Swing with me a while, we can listen to the birds call, we can keep each other warm.
Swing with me forever, we can count up every flower, we can weather every storm.
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