I am only slightly appalled that the admins have said nothing still, I'm done waiting
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17-10-2014, 11:38 AM
RE: I am only slightly appalled that the admins have said nothing still, I'm done waiting
(17-10-2014 11:29 AM)Deidre32 Wrote:  
(17-10-2014 11:23 AM)WitchSabrina Wrote:  I dont want you to feel embarrassed or upset. I think your willingness to forget and forgive is admirable.
I just think you deserve to be on a site where you are safe and appreciated.
You tried to be nice. Been there. Done that.
Its not YOUR job to moderate or admin this site and keep it troll free.

(Hug)

(((Thank you)))

It isn't so much "WC," per se as much as what this represents in my life. I have finally decided today, to get some counseling because allowing toxic people to get over on me is nothing new in my life. I must change this.

Choosing whats good for YOU is not an easy thing but you can do it. Just set your mind and dont look back.
Fighting for your own life takes many forms.
Fight. Fight for yourself and your own happiness.
You can only loose pain and gain what YOU need regardless of what anyone thinks.

(Hugsss)

When I want your opinion I'll read your entrails.
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17-10-2014, 11:40 AM
RE: I am only slightly appalled that the admins have said nothing still, I'm done waiting
(17-10-2014 11:31 AM)Dom Wrote:  Abused wife syndrome.
Funny, that's how I refer to Christianity.

I prefer fantasy, but I have to live in reality.
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17-10-2014, 11:42 AM
RE: I am only slightly appalled that the admins have said nothing still, I'm done waiting
(17-10-2014 11:31 AM)Dom Wrote:  
(17-10-2014 11:17 AM)Deidre32 Wrote:  I need to get this out because I'm upset beyond words. I have suffered embarrassment and humiliation, defending "WC." Well, here's a story. Remember how he spammed the shout box with all of that stuff directed at me? After all that, he was on another website and apologized to me. I accepted it and we talked as friends yet again. Yea, I know what you are thinking ...so Deidre, when are you getting that lobotomy again? I always try to see the good and he has a great side but he has a horrible side. That said, he promised me he wouldn't sock AF or TTA ever again, but today...he did just that. I knew immediately it was him.

I left the site I was on whereby we communicated. If you are reading this Matt, you better stay the fuck away from me now. I was your friend. I defended you. I forgave you. But, do not contact me, anywhere else again!

And I will report every single sock account I see going forward.

For the record, he denied everything mentioned in this thread. A fucking shock, I know!

Sorry Losty...I just needed to vent this here. Sad

I don't need a lecture you guys, I am so embarrassed and there are no words right now for how I feel.

I want to cry, thank you. I had an abusive childhood, dated abusive men.. The cycle is familiar to me.



Abused wife syndrome. I am hoping you get out and away from this for good... You don't need him, we all want to be your friend.

Thank you for this.... It means a lot to me.

I'm going to do whatever it takes to heal from my past so I stop making these same mistakes with toxic people.

I'm sorry to people (moms especially) who protected me. No words can express how sorry I am that I went back to the friendship.

Be true to yourself. Heart
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17-10-2014, 12:03 PM
RE: I am only slightly appalled that the admins have said nothing still, I'm done waiting
(17-10-2014 11:42 AM)Deidre32 Wrote:  
(17-10-2014 11:31 AM)Dom Wrote:  I want to cry, thank you. I had an abusive childhood, dated abusive men.. The cycle is familiar to me.



Abused wife syndrome. I am hoping you get out and away from this for good... You don't need him, we all want to be your friend.

Thank you for this.... It means a lot to me.

I'm going to do whatever it takes to heal from my past so I stop making these same mistakes with toxic people.

I'm sorry to people (moms especially) who protected me. No words can express how sorry I am that I went back to the friendship.


Getting past the need to be 'sorry' all the time to everyone is step one.
Say sorry once then take your foot off your own neck.
Done. The eternally sorry mood does not serve you. It doesnt make you strong or weak. It doesn't make you a good person or an empathetic one.
Sorry once & mean it then let it go and put your chin up and move forward.
Its the only way to change your life.

When I want your opinion I'll read your entrails.
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17-10-2014, 12:51 PM (This post was last modified: 17-10-2014 01:25 PM by Losty.)
RE: I am only slightly appalled that the admins have said nothing still, I'm done waiting
I shouldn't have posted this.

Swing with me a while, we can listen to the birds call, we can keep each other warm.
Swing with me forever, we can count up every flower, we can weather every storm.
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17-10-2014, 12:53 PM
RE: I am only slightly appalled that the admins have said nothing still, I'm done waiting
(14-10-2014 04:33 PM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  I was really hoping to see the admins come out with all of the informations about the whole WC fiasco. It would have been nice for them to explain the decisions that were made and why they were made that way the risk that was posed to all forum members because of the way things were handled, or rather not handled. An apology to the entire forum especially deidre for the terrible way this was failed to be dealt with, and a description of how they plan to keep members safe in the future. This isn't just about trolls. WC was stalking me outside of this forum before he even joined.
I never understand the reasons this type of thing is kept so private but I think it's time to speak out. I want to stay here and I want to feel safe here. I want us to have active admins that keep us all at least somewhat in the loop when it comes to our safety and privacy. I've been waiting and waiting to see something said, but so far nothing. Yesterday I saw an opportunity to bring it up, but since it was in a troll thread that had nothing to do with this issue I pulled some of it out to start a new thread. I would ask that we have some answers besides from "ask the admins", preferably some answers from the admins. And I would invite any members to read the posts I am quoting and to feel free to ask me any questions about this whole situation.

(13-10-2014 04:54 PM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  It seems like if someone you know is a sock/troll is harassing you via PM. The smartest option would be to not place them on ignore, but instead to just report every single PM they send you. It's hard enough to get threatening people banned here. Stalking, harassing, and threatening is not enough sometimes. Dodgy

(13-10-2014 04:57 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  If people decide not to put someone they want to stop PMing them on ignore then that is their prerogative. Kinda makes it harder to sympathise with someone though when, on the one hand they are complaining to you about these PMs they are getting that they don't like, but on the other hand they are refusing to anything to stop them, even when it's totally within their power

(13-10-2014 04:58 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Given the way harassment is treated around here having a clear trail seems like the smarter option.

(13-10-2014 04:59 PM)Anjele Wrote:  Agreed - the ignore function protects them much more than it protects the recipient. The likelihood saying things more boldly in a PM could lead to much more information that is required for an informed decision to be made on the part of the team.

And sadly, yes, it is hard to get dangerous people banned here. In fact, they are often the most protected.

(13-10-2014 04:59 PM)Chas Wrote:  Sure, blame the victim. Very constructive.

(13-10-2014 05:00 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  Depends on your definition of harassment. Receiving PMs you don't like from someone but refusing to block them isn't what I would call harassment.

(13-10-2014 05:04 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  That is the dictionary definition of harassment, receiving repeated unwanted attention.

(13-10-2014 05:05 PM)Anjele Wrote:  Ignoring bad behavior doesn't stop it - it turns it in a different direction.

(13-10-2014 05:09 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  You can argue about how unwanted it is when the receiver has the total power to stop it altogether but chooses not to.

(13-10-2014 05:10 PM)Anjele Wrote:  As long as there is an ability to post on the board then there isn't total power to stop it.

Unless you really want your good members to give up and leave.

(13-10-2014 05:10 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Once they ask it to cease it does not matter.

(13-10-2014 05:12 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  I disagree, if someone wants no PMs from a member then it is fully in their control to make that happen. If they do not do so then that's their choice.

(13-10-2014 05:13 PM)Chas Wrote:  Apparently that's fine. Good people leaving voluntarily is preferable to trolls being banned - it violates their rights, dontcha know. Dodgy

(13-10-2014 05:15 PM)Chas Wrote:  Once they have been asked to stop and they don't, it's harassment. Period.

(13-10-2014 05:17 PM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  Yes, because the victims of such harassment are the ones to be blamed. Perhaps said victims wouldn't need to take such drastic measure furthering their own suffering, if said powers that be weren't so pathetically obsessed with be the forum that doesn't ban people. Sadly, however, this is not the case. So I, being a member and hopefully being granted the same amount of free speech that you all love to give to trolls, am giving advice that I think might work.
If someone has threatened you, stalked you, and harassed you the admins and Hughsie do not care. Especially if that someone did these things outside of this forum. Nevermind your triggered PTSD. Nevermind your mental and emotional health. Nevermind your desire to protect other forum members from someone with an obvious mental health condition.
I went about it all wrong. I apologize to those who had to endure a small amount of the harassment I saw. If you want to learn something from my experience, learn this: do not delete you email account and do not ignore your stalker. Respond to every PM with please stop doing this and report every single PM you get. Make posts tell everyone exactly what happened so that if they aren't protected at least you don't have to feel guilty about it. Make a stir. Sometimes things are done wrong and sometimes when you think things need to change you have to piss off a few higher powers to get there. This standing up and speaking out it's not my thing. It's not something I do. I feel all shaky and freaked out right now, but things need to change and I feel morally obligated to speak out. Don't let anyone guilt you into thinking it's your fault that you're being harassed. Don't let them tell you you're not a victim if you don't put your stalker on ignore, because sadly that's the only way to get anything done here. Lastly, and most importantly, when you feel threatened make a report with your local police. They will tell you what you can do to be more protected and keep your family safe just in case.
Wow. Please excuse my rambling. This is a really hard topic for me to discuss without crying or being ill. But I thought it was an important thing to share.

(13-10-2014 05:20 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Maybe now is a good time to ask yourself if blaming the victim is appropriate given what happened last time. If you still think so maybe it is time for you to step down from the forum team.

(13-10-2014 05:24 PM)Cetaceaphile Wrote:  If people refuse to use the built in forum features which are put there to protect them then what on earth can you do? You can't start blaming other people and then saying you are being victimised for being told to use the built in protection features. It's like a soldier who refuses to wear his kevlar and then sues the army after getting his lung shot out.

(13-10-2014 05:26 PM)Anjele Wrote:  Hug

Many hugs.

Several of us know that we have to take care of ourselves here because we cannot depend on the team Several of us also try to help those who don't have the strength to fight for themselves, again because the people that should, won't.

Even Seth.

Keep records, make reports, document things, take screen shots...not only of any harassment but also of any brushoffs when you have asked for help.

This forum is broken and it's broken at the top. That needs to be fixed but will require some egos to be checked. Too many good people have been hurt and feel abandoned and that's not the supportive nature this forum claims to promote.

Here is my gift to the one that wants me gone most of all - write it up as a violation of the code of conduct. Take my vet status, ban me as has been threatened.

This is my freedom of speech.

(13-10-2014 05:26 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  Nice analogy. I was trying to think of one but you've beaten me to it. I like analogies. Smile

(13-10-2014 05:30 PM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  It doesn't matter who it is. Not to me. What matters is that these things need to be discussed and fixed. I am a member of an atheist forum that stepped up and did everything in their power to keep myself and all members safe. TTA failed miserably at that. But I love this forum. This is my home. I became an atheist here. I remembered how to be a person thanks to you guys. I made friends for the first time in almost a decade here. I don't want to leave. The idea of leaving breaks my heart. What I want and what I think is best for everyone if these things are put out there and discussed so that we can see a change. The safety of all members should trump the free speech of one. Right now that isn't the case.

(13-10-2014 05:30 PM)FSM_scot Wrote:  Part of the reason I left was the whole do nothing mentality. Not banning someone for giving a controversial opinion is something to be proud of.

Not banning a troll, someone who is actively stalking a member, harassing them or in general is cancerous to the forum is not something to be proud of, its just plain stupid. There's a reason this place loses so many fantastic users and attracts so many arseholes.

Sometimes the ban hammer just needs to be swung.

(13-10-2014 05:30 PM)Smercury44 Wrote:  Yes great analogy because... You know... Losty made a life decision to put herself in a situation to be harassed (you know, like deciding to go off to war or join the army). You're right.. She probably asked it Dodgy [/sarcasm]

More victim blaming.

(13-10-2014 05:32 PM)Chas Wrote:  And I am quite sure the majority of the members agree with that. There is a tiny minority who don't get it.

(13-10-2014 05:36 PM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  You are a fighter and I love that about you! I tend to be more of a duck and hide type person in this situation. It meant a lot to me to see that you guys all had my back. I made choices at the beginning of this that I regret. I am just not good at sticking up for myself, but I should have tried. I'm sorry for that. I should have made a bigger stir and I should have tried harder to make deidre see before she got hurt.

(13-10-2014 05:39 PM)FSM_scot Wrote:  And the thing is banning the people who are screaming to be banned wouldn't change who we are as a forum, it would only add to the place since people would be willing to stay.

This isn't about removing someone just because we don't like what they say its about removing those who are here to cause harm and no good.
Lots of things have changed around here except the one thing that would make the biggest possible impact on the place. Some people just need to be removed for their actions.

(13-10-2014 05:43 PM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  Too bad he hasn't a clue about the circumstances and therefore his opinion isn't worth much. You, on the other hand, haven't much excuse for the way you look at victims of harassment and think putting someone on ignore is good enough. As if that could fix everything. I personally invoked ignore on the very first day. And then had someone remove every picture of myself and my children and then I left. I left and the FT left everyone else here in danger if being victimized. If I had it to do over again I would PM every single admin, supermod, and mod every day. I would give them every single disturbing gruesome detail of why I was upset. I would not use the ignore button and I would report every single PM. Then I would creat a thread to document all of this for everyone to see how scary things can get while some people are still cheering "let's don't ban him, he hasn't broken any rules".

(13-10-2014 05:46 PM)Chas Wrote:  And some for their inaction. Dodgy

(13-10-2014 05:48 PM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  Why should this be private? I would love to discuss it. If there's some big thing I am missing about why my safety is not valued here, then please share. But you have no idea what it took for me to be brave enough to speak out about this. I think it's something every member deserves to be privy to.

(13-10-2014 05:51 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  Forgive me, but this harassment that Forbes is accused of? Of all the PMs I've already been forwarded, precisely zero have contained any threats or anything even close to threats. They all seem to be little more than random sentences.

-People are receiving random sentences that are in no way threatening or even creepy, and they decide they don't want to.

-I mention to the one person who actually contacts me about it that if they don't want to receive said PMs they can block them. Person seems unhappy and says they are being sent out to a lot of other people.

-I spend going on an hour creating an entire new usergroup to prevent people receiving said PMs (it really took that long).

-Following that I mention that, in a general sense, if in future anyone wants to stop a person PMing them they can do so in a couple of clicks, and then I post exactly how it's done.

Sorry, failing to see what part of that was so awful. Please enlighten me as to what part you take issue with.

(13-10-2014 05:52 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  See my above post.

(13-10-2014 05:54 PM)Anjele Wrote:  Your choices were the right ones for you. Some of us just tried to make sure things got made right and to protect others that may be here in the future. Unfortunately those efforts were unsuccessful. Many of us knew what you had been through and tried to see that anything like it was avoided, we just didn't have the power to get it done and that's too bad. As for Deirdre, many tried to protect her but in the end she made her own decisions. We were still here to try to act as a buffer.

Don't apologize for what wasn't any fault of yours.

(13-10-2014 06:00 PM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  No no, forgive me. I thought it was obvious that I wasn't talking about forbes. The part I take issue with is that is sounds disgustingly similar to what a very upset member told me she was told when she was being harassed by WC. That it was her fault for not ignoring. That just makes me sick. And so I said, based on my experiences that people should not put anyone on ignore. From that moment I have been discussing my own experiences. Which have nothing to do with forbes personally but with WC and the way this forum is run.

(13-10-2014 06:02 PM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  Thank you Hug

I just think had I been more assertive in the beginning much of this could have been avoided. Assertive just isn't Losty though.

(13-10-2014 06:04 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  Oh, I've been talking about Forbes all this time.

As for WC that was something that was handled by the Admins, you would have to ask them.

(13-10-2014 06:13 PM)Nurse Wrote:  On the upside, I'm the one who was publicly threatened by Forbes and didn't receive a PM. I have no qualms with not receiving a PM by this menace. Just sayin.

As I said before in an analysis about WC, the less contact the better.

And once again, I'm out of this conversation. Because I feel threatened. This is a sick person with a history of violence and OFFLINE STALKING.

And if this isn't WC, it's still a mentally unstable person. I refuse to be a victim again. Please permaban or I will consider leaving. This is a sadness, as I am starting to develop friendships.

(13-10-2014 06:15 PM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  Isn't so cute how that's always the answer and they never seem to be around. I, for one, find it to be completely adorable. Dodgy

And it wasn't something that was handled solely by admins. There were parts that were handled by mods and supermods as well.

When something that concerns everyone's safety and well being is fucked up this badly, maybe we all deserve an explanation.

(13-10-2014 06:19 PM)Anjele Wrote:  I sure hope you don't leave, you are a great addition to the forum.

I am sorry you feel threatened - FWIW. Hopefully those that can to something to stop it, will.

(13-10-2014 07:02 PM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  What have I been doing this whole time? I was harassed at another forum and then outside of forums altogether. I received horrifying disgusting emails that gave me nightmares and set off PTSD triggers everwhere. He somehow knew exactly where I lived even though I never told anyone that information. When I realized there was no escaping I eventually deleted that email account altogether. Sometime at the beginning of that I made a post in the private part of the forum about how the guy made me uncomfortable and I was worried he would join here. I talked to a couple of mods about it. I was mistakenly under the impression that if he did join I would be safe. What actually happened was that about a week after my email account was deleted he joined TTA. I was initially lost in a swirl of terror and nausea. At the suggestion of a few friends, some here and some afk I made a police report about it and the officers were very nice to me. They told me since I deleted my email account where the most traumatizing harassment occurred that I probably would be denied a restraining order but they had a lot of good advice and they still stroll by my house often just to check on me. I appreciate it a lot. I'm not sure that I'm in that much danger, but I've been through so much in my life and I'm not interested in taking any risks.
Anyways, he joined here and I was told by more than one mod that basically the admins decided that since all this happened outside of the forum, then they weren't going to do anything. I spoke with several mods and admins from AF who told me they would at least try to get info to the mods and admins here so they'd know what the risk and dangers really were to other forum members. At first I was really upset and hurt that my value as a member of this forum and my safety as well as the safety of other members seemed to mean nothing to the admins. But I'm not a strong girl. I don't stand up for myself, I don't like to stir up controversy. I am very much the type of person who prefers to shut up and do what I'm told. So I put him on ignore. I made it to where only mods can email me, I had all my pictures removed, I made it where I didn't show up as online, and then I left. Occasionally I would check to make sure he wasn't online and I'd log in to check my PMs.
I made a mistake because of my own personal issues. That is why I'm talking now. I'm hoping maybe others can learn from my experiences and I am hoping maybe there can be a change in policy here so that all members can feel safer.
I am not saying don't ignore the annoying douche who PMs you every day about how wrong you were in this thread or that. I am saying if you are being harassed or threatened. Do not ignore that person. Document it. Report it. Keep records of everything. If nothing is done make it public. For your own safety and the safety of your fellow members. Hopefully soon we will see a change, but as of now safety and security of members takes a back burner to whoever takes so much damn pride in being the forum that doesn't ban people.


I might be way late saying anything, but if he is stalking you, you need to get the original IP Address of WC and all other proxy IP's of his address that have been used with all the emails attached and make multiple complaints for each one to the Internet service provider that he has.

Get them to send a cease and desist letter to his physical address written by you.
Just like Copyright companies do for downloading music.


My Youtube channel if anyone is interested.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCEkRdbq...rLEz-0jEHQ
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17-10-2014, 12:55 PM (This post was last modified: 17-10-2014 01:20 PM by Losty.)
RE: I am only slightly appalled that the admins have said nothing still, I'm done waiting
I'm sorry deidre. I've been there honestly, I have. I'm sorry Hug
It just...I'm stressed...Weeping

Swing with me a while, we can listen to the birds call, we can keep each other warm.
Swing with me forever, we can count up every flower, we can weather every storm.
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17-10-2014, 01:03 PM
RE: I am only slightly appalled that the admins have said nothing still, I'm done waiting
(17-10-2014 11:17 AM)Deidre32 Wrote:  I need to get this out because I'm upset beyond words. I have suffered embarrassment and humiliation, defending "WC." Well, here's a story. Remember how he spammed the shout box with all of that stuff directed at me? After all that, he was on another website and apologized to me. I accepted it and we talked as friends yet again. Yea, I know what you are thinking ...so Deidre, when are you getting that lobotomy again? I always try to see the good and he has a great side but he has a horrible side. That said, he promised me he wouldn't sock AF or TTA ever again, but today...he did just that. I knew immediately it was him.

I left the site I was on whereby we communicated. If you are reading this Matt, you better stay the fuck away from me now. I was your friend. I defended you. I forgave you. But, do not contact me, anywhere else again!

And I will report every single sock account I see going forward.

For the record, he denied everything mentioned in this thread. A fucking shock, I know!

Sorry Losty...I just needed to vent this here. Sad

I don't need a lecture you guys, I am so embarrassed and there are no words right now for how I feel.

The biggest issue I see for those of us watching this situation was your conflicting stance. You were upset then joking with him. You would fuss at him followed with LOL. Then you were talking to him as though all was well on Atheist Nexus but still upset about him here. It really became confusing and it also would make it nearly impossible to make a case against him in your situation. What help you received her e was negated by a completely different attitude on the other site.

A lot of people put a lot of effort into trying to help but then you effectively undid what was done. While people spent time here banning his socks and cleaning up his messes to protect you, you were willingly engaging in conversation with him.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF
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17-10-2014, 01:17 PM
RE: I am only slightly appalled that the admins have said nothing still, I'm done waiting
I can't change my choices, and I regret them. For a variety of reasons. I'm sorry to those I've hurt here.

Be true to yourself. Heart
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17-10-2014, 01:22 PM
RE: I am only slightly appalled that the admins have said nothing still, I'm done waiting
(17-10-2014 01:17 PM)Deidre32 Wrote:  I can't change my choices, and I regret them. For a variety of reasons. I'm sorry to those I've hurt here.

Learn from your mistakes, that is all you can do.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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