I am so confused...
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28-05-2011, 08:59 AM
I am so confused...
hey everyone,
I'm a Muslim, and now I am really f**ked up, currently I have exams but I can't concentrate.
I came here to talk, listen and be listened to. and lets say that am not fully into Islam (I never pray, which makes me "kafer")
I looked at your discussions and they were so reasonable, on the contrary, I looked at discussions made by Muslims on other sites.

I also wanted to convert but somethings prevented me, like:
1)What about my parents?
2)The Qura'an has some prophecies from 5000 years about our time that came true!!
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28-05-2011, 09:18 AM
 
RE: I am so confused...
I know I myself have only been on this forum for a few days, but welcome Smile

The parents issue is certainly a tough one but also one that many other people have been through. I can't say I have myself, but I am sure there are other users on the forum who will be able to help you on that one. On The Thinking Atheists podcasts a lot of people call in (I think there's some good examples on the 'talk about anything' podcast) with the issue of dealing with their parents so perhaps you should give them a listen for some information. There's also this one which might be of use: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UlOxecTIeM

As for the prophecies, which ones are you talking about?
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28-05-2011, 09:31 AM
RE: I am so confused...
Welcome to the forum. Make yourself at home. Good luck on your exams.

1) This issue is shared by many believers questioning their faith. There may be repercussions ranging from disappointment to more severe and this can happen with their family , friends and community.
2)Please post these prophecies when you have time so we may discuss them.

Also , we have at least two members that I know of who are ex-muslims and may be better suited to answering your questions as they may know a lot more about Islam than I do.

Once again , feel welcome.

Atheism is a religion like OFF is a TV channel !!!

Proud of my genetic relatives Big Grin
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28-05-2011, 09:33 AM
RE: I am so confused...
Welcome!

(28-05-2011 08:59 AM)CONFUSED Wrote:  2)The Qura'an has some prophecies from 5000 years about our time that came true!!

I don't want to get into the parents issue because I do not feel as though I am qualified to give any advice on the subject, but I would like to know if you would be able to provide some examples of such prophecies?
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28-05-2011, 09:36 AM (This post was last modified: 28-05-2011 09:46 AM by CONFUSED.)
RE: I am so confused...
I live in Saudi-Arabia (only podcasts about Islam are here).
as for prophecies:
1)too much people will live on earth.
2)crimes of murder will be more.
3)theft will be more.
4)the fight on Islam will be bloodier than ever.
but what makes me more confused is that the Qura'an has many cures for many diseases and all of them were proven right!! for example, you can use honey to reduce any bones disorder (there are lot more, but I rather play Xbox than reading Qura'an)
.........
but I really need explanations about theism and atheism :\
PS: I'm only 14 years old.
but am rather smart (got a 170 on my IQ and I take computer programming courses), so I like talking "logic", plz help me, either prove religion right or wrong....
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28-05-2011, 09:54 AM
RE: I am so confused...
As a Saudi citizen aren't you obligate by law to properly practice Islam ? (I'm not trying to insult you , I'm just unsure about the law)

1)Well it depends on how much is too many. It is more or less related to resources and our ability to manage them. And this is a pertinent observation at most. Its clear that if one observes the growth rate of the human populace one can assume that at one point resources necessary for survival like basic food products will be scarce.
2) and 3) seem directly related to 1) . When resources are scarce and you have a large population it is more likely that crime will increase. Theft is natural in any poor society and is usually done for survival while murder is sadly an occurrence when people compete for resources and try to defend the interests of their own group.
The observations aren't bad in regards to human society and the way we conduct our affairs but they hardly seem divinely inspired - unless I am missing the context.
4) - I'm not sure I understand this properly. Does it imply that violence will take place for Islam to survive ???

Well , I'm not sure how honey aids in bone disorder treatment. I need to see a double-blind medical trial conducted on a sufficiently large cohort population to validate the claim.

Theism is an adherence to a world-view based on religion. Or at least that a deity exists based on religious text.
A-theism is the lack of such a belief. The word atheist usually means "I don't believe in a god ". Most of us do not believe in a god for lack of evidence. Now it's a bit tricky , but when i said god earlier , I meant "god" as presented by a religious text. You can believe in a god/life-force and be an atheist - for example deists and agnostics. They reject a theistic explanation so they are a-theists (non-theists). This is a bare bones definition at best.

Atheism is a religion like OFF is a TV channel !!!

Proud of my genetic relatives Big Grin
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28-05-2011, 10:08 AM
 
RE: I am so confused...
Dear friend,

The Quran is not gonna know if you do not believe in it and its prophecies are not prophecies in any respect. They are extremist predictions of bloody murder that seem to be turning true only because people are trying their best to verify them, not because it was meant to be. They are "marketed" as prophecies to increase their ill-deserved validity and seethe into the minds of the devout and scared masses.

Take a few deep breaths and take the quran out of your mind. Do not allow its allegations to influence your mood or heart-rate. Focus on your parents, on whether or not it is something you wish and can afford to tell them. Think of a back up plan in case you are rejected or worse; in the case you actually decide to let them know. Think of how to protect yourself from the quran and its followers.

If secrecy seems right, do it, until an opportunity arises for you to feel liberated. Blush
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28-05-2011, 10:12 AM (This post was last modified: 28-05-2011 10:15 AM by CONFUSED.)
RE: I am so confused...
no, in saudi-arabia there's no law that forces you to follow Islam. (am Egyptian btw)
but as I told you, I'm not much into Islam...
and about honey aiding bones disorder, its completely true, my grandma was being treated this way and it worked.

about 4: sry, I meant "thought" war. (like people questioning every thing about Islam)
......
this is a little off topic, back when I was a kid when our teachers were teaching us about Islam, it was always the same YOU MUST, YOU MUSTN'T and if you dare ask why, all you get back is "no reply" or "حرام" which means forbidden from Islam.
but, somethings made total sense, like:
1)rich MUST give to the poor (in our town, this prevented crime)
2)you MUSTN'T have sex with those you're not married to.
......
the point is, somethings prove Islam right and other things put Islam into questioning and am right in the middle, wondering where to fall

(28-05-2011 10:08 AM)Celestus87 Wrote:  Dear friend,

The Quran is not gonna know if you do not believe in it and its prophecies are not prophecies in any respect. They are extremist predictions of bloody murder that seem to be turning true only because people are trying their best to verify them, not because it was meant to be. They are "marketed" as prophecies to increase their ill-deserved validity and seethe into the minds of the devout and scared masses.

Take a few deep breaths and take the quran out of your mind. Do not allow its allegations to influence your mood or heart-rate. Focus on your parents, on whether or not it is something you wish and can afford to tell them. Think of a back up plan in case you are rejected or worse; in the case you actually decide to let them know. Think of how to protect yourself from the quran and its followers.

If secrecy seems right, do it, until an opportunity arises for you to feel liberated. Blush
the Qura'an represent its prophecies as "this is going to happen".
as for my parents, they've done so much kind things to me that my human mind can never deny.

and I still didn't convert nor I still follow Islam in complete faith... am searching for answers
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28-05-2011, 10:17 AM
RE: I am so confused...
(28-05-2011 09:36 AM)CONFUSED Wrote:  I live in Saudi-Arabia (only podcasts about Islam are here).
as for prophecies:
1)too much people will live on earth.

I have a few problems with this one. This sounds like a completely subjective idea. How does one determine when "too many people" are in any given area, let alone an entire planet? At what point did this prediction become accurate, if at all? Earth's population has been steadily increasing for thousands of years in general, who says "too many people" live on Earth? I would disagree this is the case, but even if it was, it is hardly a prophesy to be impressed with in my honest opinion.

Quote:2)crimes of murder will be more.

So what? This comes with a larger population.

Quote:3)theft will be more.

Same thing....

Quote:4)the fight on Islam will be bloodier than ever.

By what measure does one verify this is true?

Quote:but what makes me more confused is that the Qura'an has many cures for many diseases and all of them were proven right!! for example, you can use honey to reduce any bones disorder

Even if this was the case, I'm not quite sure it is, once again I ask, so what? Did the Koran give us the germ theory of disease? Did it tell us how to create vaccines or do heart transplants? The idea that some old book says a natural substance has healing power and it turns out to be true doesn't prove it was some divine prophesy, does it?

Quote:but I really need explanations about theism and atheism :\

In the broadest sense possible, theism is the belief that some God or gods exist, whereas atheism is simply the rejection of such belief. I'll simplify it for you with my personal experience:

My grandmother tells me that she believes in God, the God explained in the Old testament. I asked her why she believes it and she says because the bible is the inerrant word of God, I then ask her how she knows this and she explains to me that she knows it because she has faith. She "knows" god exists and the bible is His book and that is evidence enough for her. She makes the claim that there is an all-powerful, all-knowing, and perfectly good being out there that created humans in their current form and her evidence for this is the bible.

In this case I have not been presented with sufficient justification to believe that the bible is perfect or that it is the word of a God, and I actually think there is good reason to be skeptical of that claim given various contradictions, seemingly impossible stories/claims, and a plethora of other flaws. It seems to me that a god that is all-knowing, all powerful, and perfectly good could not logically exist in a world where evil clearly exists as does in ours. I recommend you Google "the problem of evil" and do some quick reading.

Quote:so I like talking "logic", plz help me, either prove religion right or wrong....

As an atheist, I am also a skeptic. Being a skeptic means that you do not believe any claims unless there is proper justification to do so, but it also means that you do not immediately reject all claims until evidence is presented. When examining claims it is important to know and understand the burden of proof. When debating any issue, the burden of proof lies only on the person asserting a claim is either true or untrue. The default position, as it is called, is the position that one must take in regards to some person's claim. The default position SHOULD be to withhold belief until evidence is brought to the table to be examined.

As a "weak" atheist, I am one who does NOT claim that God doesn't or cannot exist. I have no burden of proof in this case. If I were to say "God doesn't exist" I would need to justify this statement. I do not accept the claim that God exists because the people who claim he does have not met their burden of proof. If someone claims God exists, they are the ones that must provide evidence for their claim.

If compelling evidence was presented to me that God existed, and the argument given with it was logically correct, I would have no problem believing God exists. Until then, I do not accept the claims made by theists.
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28-05-2011, 10:30 AM
RE: I am so confused...
thank you guys Blush
but am still not 100% convinced, plus, from inside I just feel that converting isn't right and I also feel that it's right!!!
and if you know any ex-muslims, I really wanna talk to one Undecided
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