I am so confused...
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28-05-2011, 10:32 AM
RE: I am so confused...
(28-05-2011 10:30 AM)CONFUSED Wrote:  thank you guys Blush
but am still not 100% convinced, plus, from inside I just feel that converting isn't right and I also feel that it's right!!!

Pretend like you are starting from scratch without any preconceived notions or beliefs. Consider this, why is Islam correct and not Christianity?
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28-05-2011, 10:33 AM
RE: I am so confused...
To address the cures in the qura'an...There is often a good reason folk remedies are, well, folk remedies. Often, they work and have been used for centuries. The problem is, once they become folklore, they are given more credit than they deserve. For example, mint tea has been used for a very long time to settle an upset stomach. First off, drinking a warm, flavorful drink feels comforting. That can psycologically ease a physical ailment. Plus the oils from mint kill a few bacteria that naturally occur in the stomach. When these bacteria are in excess they cause gas, resulting in an "unsettled stomach". The mint restores some balance by reducing the gas causing bacteria. The problem is, when these remedies are taken as something that will cure any ailment, the science goes out the window. Mint tea can cause an imbalance if taken in excess. If you take it as a remedy, but it's not the bacteria that is the problem, you don't feel any worse, since it's effects are mild and you've already got the belly ache. So it gets chalked up to, "didn't work this time, but it worked the last two times so it must be a cure and I did something wrong".

It's easy to say that a centuries old text had figured out a cure and that is miraculous because it was written before the science was available to figure that cure out. In reality, people were around to write the text, and they knew about the remedies because their great-great-great- grandparents had made tea from mint and it happened to get rid of the stomach ache they had from eating some bad pork (which is also why that particular ancestor said not to eat pork?) so they passed it on. No secret. No magic. No special god-given knowledge. Just a coincidence that worked, so ancient people continued to use it.

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28-05-2011, 11:25 AM
RE: I am so confused...
(28-05-2011 10:33 AM)Stark Raving Wrote:  To address the cures in the qura'an...There is often a good reason folk remedies are, well, folk remedies. Often, they work and have been used for centuries. The problem is, once they become folklore, they are given more credit than they deserve. For example, mint tea has been used for a very long time to settle an upset stomach. First off, drinking a warm, flavorful drink feels comforting. That can psycologically ease a physical ailment. Plus the oils from mint kill a few bacteria that naturally occur in the stomach. When these bacteria are in excess they cause gas, resulting in an "unsettled stomach". The mint restores some balance by reducing the gas causing bacteria. The problem is, when these remedies are taken as something that will cure any ailment, the science goes out the window. Mint tea can cause an imbalance if taken in excess. If you take it as a remedy, but it's not the bacteria that is the problem, you don't feel any worse, since it's effects are mild and you've already got the belly ache. So it gets chalked up to, "didn't work this time, but it worked the last two times so it must be a cure and I did something wrong".

It's easy to say that a centuries old text had figured out a cure and that is miraculous because it was written before the science was available to figure that cure out. In reality, people were around to write the text, and they knew about the remedies because their great-great-great- grandparents had made tea from mint and it happened to get rid of the stomach ache they had from eating some bad pork (which is also why that particular ancestor said not to eat pork?) so they passed it on. No secret. No magic. No special god-given knowledge. Just a coincidence that worked, so ancient people continued to use it.
u sir, make sense, I also wondered why in Qura'an its always given orders, no direct reasons why should you do these oreders but you must do them
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28-05-2011, 01:32 PM
RE: I am so confused...
First of all I'd like to say that you've earned my respect for questioning your beliefs in the circumstances which you are in at the moment. Since you are forced by your social environment, I think it's a very brave thing to do.

Here's some of my ideas on what's still keeping you from becoming atheistic or agnostic:

"You won't be accepted by your family and your social community". Well if this is the case, you should keep your doubts (maybe atheism in the future) a secret, like you did up until now. You can always talk about your ideas and religious thoughts in here, the people here are always there to answer your questions or to discuss your problems.

(28-05-2011 10:12 AM)CONFUSED Wrote:  no, in saudi-arabia there's no law that forces you to follow Islam. (am Egyptian btw)
but as I told you, I'm not much into Islam...
and about honey aiding bones disorder, its completely true, my grandma was being treated this way and it worked.
Stark Raving made a great post on it already. I just wanted to add the possibility of the Placebo effect in case you haven't heard about it already. Here's a bunch of information on it if you're interested: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo_eff...the_effect
But to give a short explanation: Some (quite a lot actually) people can get an improved condition (sometimes even cured) from taking a pill that doesn't do anything to cure their ailment, as long as they believe it will actually cure them. I think this could have been the case with your grandmother.

Anyway, welcome to the forum!
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28-05-2011, 02:24 PM
RE: I am so confused...
(28-05-2011 10:30 AM)CONFUSED Wrote:  thank you guys Blush
but am still not 100% convinced, plus, from inside I just feel that converting isn't right and I also feel that it's right!!!


You don't "convert" to atheism. You don't go from one leap of faith to another. Just keep asking questions, keep examining the Qu'ran and decide whether or not the statements in it could just have easily been made by the men who wrote it, keep looking around this site. If you decide that Islam probably isn't true, then congrats, you're now an atheist.

"Ain't got no last words to say, yellow streak right up my spine. The gun in my mouth was real and the taste blew my mind."

"We see you cry. We turn your head. Then we slap your face. We see you try. We see you fail. Some things never change."
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28-05-2011, 07:01 PM
RE: I am so confused...
There is a problem with your first post. The Qura'an has not been around for 5000 years. It has been around for closer to 1400 years. Even Judaism hasn't been around for 5000 years.

"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason and intellect has intended us to forego their use." - Galileo

"Every man is guilty of all the good he did not do." - Voltaire
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29-05-2011, 11:05 AM
RE: I am so confused...
(28-05-2011 02:24 PM)Buddy Christ Wrote:  
(28-05-2011 10:30 AM)CONFUSED Wrote:  thank you guys Blush
but am still not 100% convinced, plus, from inside I just feel that converting isn't right and I also feel that it's right!!!


You don't "convert" to atheism. You don't go from one leap of faith to another. Just keep asking questions, keep examining the Qu'ran and decide whether or not the statements in it could just have easily been made by the men who wrote it, keep looking around this site. If you decide that Islam probably isn't true, then congrats, you're now an atheist.

I've made some research in the Qura'an; amazingly, I found that the number of bones in a human was already in the 1400-years-old Qura'an, I also found that Allah said in the Qura'an that the Earth rotated around the sun....
I really want to find answers, you here have ideas that pretty much convinces me but the Qura'an also has some scientific script that's 1400-years-old and it's true.
I really need help Undecided
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29-05-2011, 11:52 AM
RE: I am so confused...
The ancient Egyptians knew an incredible amount of information about anatomy before anyone ever dreamed up the Qura'an. Many cultures dissected their dead, and knowing the number of bones in the body is probably one of the most simple pieces of information. Just because it's in a religous text doesn't make it evidence of magic. Once you start seeing the Qura'an as a text written by people instead of Allah, you'll start to see how it can be twisted to show "evidence" of devine inspiration.

I'd have to look into it further, but from what I understand, the Qura'an contradicts itself, in that it says the Earth is both flat and spherical, and says that the earth revolves around the sun and vice versa. Besides, many have had the theory that the Earth revolves around the sun. Galleleo was just the guy who showed enough evidence that it became indisputable. Again, remember that men wrote these texts, and they did have knowledge.

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29-05-2011, 12:10 PM
RE: I am so confused...
(29-05-2011 11:05 AM)CONFUSED Wrote:  I've made some research in the Qura'an; amazingly, I found that the number of bones in a human was already in the 1400-years-old Qura'an, I also found that Allah said in the Qura'an that the Earth rotated around the sun....
I really want to find answers, you here have ideas that pretty much convinces me but the Qura'an also has some scientific script that's 1400-years-old and it's true.
I really need help Undecided


Verse numbers?

Cause all I see in the Qu'ran is the opposite of what you claim.


13:2 The sun orbits the earth
18:86,90 There are designated spots on the flat earth for the sun to rise from (the westernmost point on the earth?) and set (a muddy spring)
21:33 The sun and the moon float in an orbit around earth
27:61 The earth is a non-moving abode
67:5 The stars are lanterns in lower heaven which can be used as missiles to throw at devils

and many references to how the Earth was spread out by the "spreader" which suggests a flat earth again.

Skeptic's Annotated Quran

"Ain't got no last words to say, yellow streak right up my spine. The gun in my mouth was real and the taste blew my mind."

"We see you cry. We turn your head. Then we slap your face. We see you try. We see you fail. Some things never change."
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29-05-2011, 12:19 PM
 
RE: I am so confused...
(29-05-2011 11:05 AM)CONFUSED Wrote:  I've made some research in the Qura'an; amazingly, I found that the number of bones in a human was already in the 1400-years-old Qura'an, I also found that Allah said in the Qura'an that the Earth rotated around the sun....
I really want to find answers, you here have ideas that pretty much convinces me but the Qura'an also has some scientific script that's 1400-years-old and it's true.
I really need help Undecided

Counting the number of bones in the human body is not a "prophecy". That is something that any ordinary human can discover for themselves by dissecting a dead human. Is it nasty, difficult work? Yes, but everyone has the ability to do it. The possibility that someone put that information into a 1400 year old book is not evidence of it being divinely inspired.

The concept of a sun centered universe was not originated by Muslims. Some Greeks postulated that the sun could be the center of the universe.

I used to date a Muslim and she would talk about these sorts of claims made by Muslims about the Qu'ran, so I am somewhat familiar with them. The reality is that ancient humans weren't as ignorant as we tend to think they were, and they put this knowledge into books they wrote, the Qu'ran included. A real test for the Qu'ran would be if it made predictions that ancients humans could not have possibly made on their own. These predictions would also have to be explicit, not subject to interpretation. However, to my knowledge, there are no such predictions in ANY holy book.

Aside from all of this, the tone of your posts gives me the impression that you are very nervous and impatient about this subject. Pardon me if my characterization is wrong, it is not meant to be an insult. My purpose in mentioning that is that I think you should relax and take your time. In my opinion, what is most important is to develop a sound logical thought process that leads to a belief system based upon evidence. Don't trust any individual or text. Question and verify everything. If you do, you will inevitably reach the best answer.
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