I am totally shocked....
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26-05-2013, 09:05 PM
RE: I am totally shocked....
(26-05-2013 11:26 AM)Impulse Wrote:  
(26-05-2013 09:19 AM)bbeljefe Wrote:  If one has no legitimate authority, one can only assume authority.

"Assume" in this context simply means "to take on". There is nothing about the word that implies it's not "legitimate".

Tell me, why are you pressing this issue so much? You seem to be supporting that I and I should hate the US. Consider

I have nothing to do with IandI and what he does or doesn't hate. I only speak for myself, rather than thinking I can speak for a group of people.

As for hating the US, one might as well hate a forest. It's just a concept. One can, however, hate the people who call themselves the US government.

And yes, these people have assumed authority because they have no legitimate authority. If their authority were actually legitimate and consented to by everyone in the US, they wouldn't need guns.

For instance, my doctor doesn't have to point guns at me in order that I concede her authority on my health care. Her authority over my health is legitimate because I seek it. I don't seek Barack Obama's flying murder robots or congress' onerous regulations over what I can and cannot do on my own property with my own body.

The beginning of wisdom is to call things by their right names. - Chinese Proverb
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26-05-2013, 09:31 PM
RE: I am totally shocked....
(26-05-2013 09:05 PM)bbeljefe Wrote:  
(26-05-2013 11:26 AM)Impulse Wrote:  "Assume" in this context simply means "to take on". There is nothing about the word that implies it's not "legitimate".

Tell me, why are you pressing this issue so much? You seem to be supporting that I and I should hate the US. Consider

I have nothing to do with IandI and what he does or doesn't hate. I only speak for myself, rather than thinking I can speak for a group of people.

As for hating the US, one might as well hate a forest. It's just a concept. One can, however, hate the people who call themselves the US government.

And yes, these people have assumed authority because they have no legitimate authority. If their authority were actually legitimate and consented to by everyone in the US, they wouldn't need guns.

For instance, my doctor doesn't have to point guns at me in order that I concede her authority on my health care. Her authority over my health is legitimate because I seek it. I don't seek Barack Obama's flying murder robots or congress' onerous regulations over what I can and cannot do on my own property with my own body.

I'm sorry but that is the most asinine non-sequitur argument. Elections are the legitimising process. The anarchist position is one of extreme naivety on one side and complete disregard for everyone else on the other. Oh no you got lucky and managed to be born into one of the richest areas in human history and now they want you to pay some of it back, poor you. You have and continue to take advantage of the collective society while trying to play some kind of holier than thou "the system is evil" card well bullshit.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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26-05-2013, 09:41 PM
RE: I am totally shocked....
(26-05-2013 09:31 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(26-05-2013 09:05 PM)bbeljefe Wrote:  I have nothing to do with IandI and what he does or doesn't hate. I only speak for myself, rather than thinking I can speak for a group of people.

As for hating the US, one might as well hate a forest. It's just a concept. One can, however, hate the people who call themselves the US government.

And yes, these people have assumed authority because they have no legitimate authority. If their authority were actually legitimate and consented to by everyone in the US, they wouldn't need guns.

For instance, my doctor doesn't have to point guns at me in order that I concede her authority on my health care. Her authority over my health is legitimate because I seek it. I don't seek Barack Obama's flying murder robots or congress' onerous regulations over what I can and cannot do on my own property with my own body.

I'm sorry but that is the most asinine non-sequitur argument. Elections are the legitimising process. The anarchist position is one of extreme naivety on one side and complete disregard for everyone else on the other. Oh no you got lucky and managed to be born into one of the richest areas in human history and now they want you to pay some of it back, poor you. You have and continue to take advantage of the collective society while trying to play some kind of holier than thou "the system is evil" card well bullshit.


Elections don't legitimize anything. When one can elect not to participate, then we can talk.

Speaking of non sequitur, the wealth of the nation state a person is born into has absolutely nothing to do with the coercive nature of the state.

The beginning of wisdom is to call things by their right names. - Chinese Proverb
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27-05-2013, 01:54 PM
RE: I am totally shocked....
(26-05-2013 09:41 PM)bbeljefe Wrote:  
(26-05-2013 09:31 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  I'm sorry but that is the most asinine non-sequitur argument. Elections are the legitimising process. The anarchist position is one of extreme naivety on one side and complete disregard for everyone else on the other. Oh no you got lucky and managed to be born into one of the richest areas in human history and now they want you to pay some of it back, poor you. You have and continue to take advantage of the collective society while trying to play some kind of holier than thou "the system is evil" card well bullshit.


Elections don't legitimize anything. When one can elect not to participate, then we can talk.

Speaking of non sequitur, the wealth of the nation state a person is born into has absolutely nothing to do with the coercive nature of the state.
If you can't even recognize that the elections are what makes the authority legitimate, then it's completely pointless to continue this discussion. "Government by the people and for the people" apparently falls on deaf ears too. And fine, it's your own hate, not I and I's you have been arguing for. Feel free to move anytime. Funny, I bet you won't...

"Religion has caused more misery to all of mankind in every stage of human history than any other single idea." --Madalyn Murray O'Hair
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27-05-2013, 05:04 PM
RE: I am totally shocked....
(27-05-2013 01:54 PM)Impulse Wrote:  If you can't even recognize that the elections are what makes the authority legitimate, then it's completely pointless to continue this discussion.

If fifty men and one woman are on a ship and 49 of the men decide that raping the one woman is the thing to do, is that also legitimate? Is the fiftieth man, who doesn't want to rape the woman required to hold her down for the others?

Quote:"Government by the people and for the people" apparently falls on deaf ears too.

If you want to live in a community where half your wealth is stolen from you and given to others and where your peaceful actions can be considered criminal, by all means do so. But don't force your will on me. That is the only thing I ask.

Quote:And fine, it's your own hate, not I and I's you have been arguing for. Feel free to move anytime. Funny, I bet you won't...

Ah yes... the old favorite angry dad argument. My house my rules... if you don't like it get the fuck out. Tongue


Why do you think it is that you get so angry when someone points out the irrationality of statism?

The beginning of wisdom is to call things by their right names. - Chinese Proverb
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27-05-2013, 05:19 PM
RE: I am totally shocked....
(27-05-2013 05:04 PM)bbeljefe Wrote:  
(27-05-2013 01:54 PM)Impulse Wrote:  If you can't even recognize that the elections are what makes the authority legitimate, then it's completely pointless to continue this discussion.

If fifty men and one woman are on a ship and 49 of the men decide that raping the one woman is the thing to do, is that also legitimate? Is the fiftieth man, who doesn't want to rape the woman required to hold her down for the others?

Quote:"Government by the people and for the people" apparently falls on deaf ears too.

If you want to live in a community where half your wealth is stolen from you and given to others and where your peaceful actions can be considered criminal, by all means do so. But don't force your will on me. That is the only thing I ask.

Quote:And fine, it's your own hate, not I and I's you have been arguing for. Feel free to move anytime. Funny, I bet you won't...

Ah yes... the old favorite angry dad argument. My house my rules... if you don't like it get the fuck out. Tongue


Why do you think it is that you get so angry when someone points out the irrationality of statism?

Mostly because you offer no practicable alternative.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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27-05-2013, 07:34 PM
RE: I am totally shocked....
(27-05-2013 05:19 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(27-05-2013 05:04 PM)bbeljefe Wrote:  If fifty men and one woman are on a ship and 49 of the men decide that raping the one woman is the thing to do, is that also legitimate? Is the fiftieth man, who doesn't want to rape the woman required to hold her down for the others?


If you want to live in a community where half your wealth is stolen from you and given to others and where your peaceful actions can be considered criminal, by all means do so. But don't force your will on me. That is the only thing I ask.


Ah yes... the old favorite angry dad argument. My house my rules... if you don't like it get the fuck out. Tongue


Why do you think it is that you get so angry when someone points out the irrationality of statism?

Mostly because you offer no practicable alternative.


Why do you continue to lie about that point? Is it because the thought of treating children with respect makes you uncomfortable?

What is it about not abusing children that bothers you so much Chas?

The beginning of wisdom is to call things by their right names. - Chinese Proverb
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27-05-2013, 10:00 PM
I am totally shocked....
(26-05-2013 09:05 PM)bbeljefe Wrote:  
(26-05-2013 11:26 AM)Impulse Wrote:  "Assume" in this context simply means "to take on". There is nothing about the word that implies it's not "legitimate".

Tell me, why are you pressing this issue so much? You seem to be supporting that I and I should hate the US. Consider

I have nothing to do with IandI and what he does or doesn't hate. I only speak for myself, rather than thinking I can speak for a group of people.

As for hating the US, one might as well hate a forest. It's just a concept. One can, however, hate the people who call themselves the US government.

And yes, these people have assumed authority because they have no legitimate authority. If their authority were actually legitimate and consented to by everyone in the US, they wouldn't need guns.

For instance, my doctor doesn't have to point guns at me in order that I concede her authority on my health care. Her authority over my health is legitimate because I seek it. I don't seek Barack Obama's flying murder robots or congress' onerous regulations over what I can and cannot do on my own property with my own body.

You have a very outdated view of methods governments use to control people. Current ideology preaches individualism, psychologically isolating the individual and making them more vulnerable. The government in these circumstances doesn't need to use force, the government feeds the individuals ego and persuades the Individual to make a "choice" of course. Then the Individual feels good about this choice because he is told that it is his own choice and not related at all to the massive amounts of persuasion techniques used against him. Brainwashing. If you master that this You don't need guns on a regular basis to force people to believe things.
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27-05-2013, 10:12 PM
RE: I am totally shocked....
(27-05-2013 10:00 PM)I and I Wrote:  
(26-05-2013 09:05 PM)bbeljefe Wrote:  I have nothing to do with IandI and what he does or doesn't hate. I only speak for myself, rather than thinking I can speak for a group of people.

As for hating the US, one might as well hate a forest. It's just a concept. One can, however, hate the people who call themselves the US government.

And yes, these people have assumed authority because they have no legitimate authority. If their authority were actually legitimate and consented to by everyone in the US, they wouldn't need guns.

For instance, my doctor doesn't have to point guns at me in order that I concede her authority on my health care. Her authority over my health is legitimate because I seek it. I don't seek Barack Obama's flying murder robots or congress' onerous regulations over what I can and cannot do on my own property with my own body.

You have a very outdated view of methods governments use to control people. Current ideology preaches individualism, psychologically isolating the individual and making them more vulnerable. The government in these circumstances doesn't need to use force, the government feeds the individuals ego and persuades the Individual to make a "choice" of course. Then the Individual feels good about this choice because he is told that it is his own choice and not related at all to the massive amounts of persuasion techniques used against him. Brainwashing. If you master that this You don't need guns on a regular basis to force people to believe things.

You're correct, modern nation states (particularly in the west) don't need guns as much as they did in the past. However, they all do still use them. Not only that, but they all still use prisons and some of them even force their citizens to participate in the circus they call elections. And yes, they use guns to back up that force.

Oh and, there is no appreciable focus on individualism in today's collectivist nation states. The state wants more power and control over more industries with every passing day and, those who run the state preach the benefits of collectivism at every opportunity. It would be interesting if you could provide some empirical examples of this individualist attitude you claim is being disseminated.

The beginning of wisdom is to call things by their right names. - Chinese Proverb
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27-05-2013, 11:27 PM
RE: I am totally shocked....
(27-05-2013 10:12 PM)bbeljefe Wrote:  
(27-05-2013 10:00 PM)I and I Wrote:  You have a very outdated view of methods governments use to control people. Current ideology preaches individualism, psychologically isolating the individual and making them more vulnerable. The government in these circumstances doesn't need to use force, the government feeds the individuals ego and persuades the Individual to make a "choice" of course. Then the Individual feels good about this choice because he is told that it is his own choice and not related at all to the massive amounts of persuasion techniques used against him. Brainwashing. If you master that this You don't need guns on a regular basis to force people to believe things.

You're correct, modern nation states (particularly in the west) don't need guns as much as they did in the past. However, they all do still use them. Not only that, but they all still use prisons and some of them even force their citizens to participate in the circus they call elections. And yes, they use guns to back up that force.

Oh and, there is no appreciable focus on individualism in today's collectivist nation states. The state wants more power and control over more industries with every passing day and, those who run the state preach the benefits of collectivism at every opportunity. It would be interesting if you could provide some empirical examples of this individualist attitude you claim is being disseminated.

Here comes fox news...

Hey, how the hell is the U.S. a collectivist state? In what way are they putting value on community and culture over individual greed?
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