I believe in a higher power, but I love & respect all views & welcome friendly debate
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10-01-2012, 03:53 PM
RE: I believe in a higher power, but I love & respect all views & welcome friendly debate
(10-01-2012 03:33 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(10-01-2012 02:45 PM)Thatweirdkid Wrote:  And God's view of marriage differs from the US definition I know.

So, why are you against gay marriage?

I'd say because it just doesn't seem natural. Like, if it is, then why are animals not gay? I would think it would occur in nature otherwise if it were a genetic thing.
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10-01-2012, 04:00 PM (This post was last modified: 10-01-2012 04:05 PM by kingschosen.)
RE: I believe in a higher power, but I love & respect all views & welcome friendly debate
(10-01-2012 03:53 PM)Thatweirdkid Wrote:  
(10-01-2012 03:33 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(10-01-2012 02:45 PM)Thatweirdkid Wrote:  And God's view of marriage differs from the US definition I know.

So, why are you against gay marriage?

I'd say because it just doesn't seem natural. Like, if it is, then why are animals not gay? I would think it would occur in nature otherwise if it were a genetic thing.

Ummmm... animals are gay. It does occur in nature.

Edit:
Gay animal behavior
List of gay animals

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10-01-2012, 04:04 PM
RE: I believe in a higher power, but I love & respect all views & welcome friendly debate
(10-01-2012 03:46 PM)Thatweirdkid Wrote:  Haha man I really have to choose my words carefully. I will agree with the "I don't know there isn't a god and you don't know there is". I have no proof to say that their is other than my belief that I know of which apparently doesn't cut it. But you can't prove there is no god? You just take the evidence and it tells you that, chances are more towards there isn't a god? And until you see evidence for instead of against god you wont believe in him? That makes sense. I'm sorry if I sound mean by asking these questions. I'm simply trying to better understand your beliefs. I'm very new to this. Hahaha

Yes, to have a really good discussion or debate, picking your words carefully is important. We are trying to communicate sometimes complicated ideas or subtle differences (and sometimes simple ideas and differences as subtle as a punch in the noseTongue), so wording is important.

If anyone sounds mean around her, it would be me.Cool

Please continue, I think you are making real progress.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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10-01-2012, 04:06 PM
RE: I believe in a higher power, but I love & respect all views & welcome friendly debate
(10-01-2012 04:04 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(10-01-2012 03:46 PM)Thatweirdkid Wrote:  Haha man I really have to choose my words carefully. I will agree with the "I don't know there isn't a god and you don't know there is". I have no proof to say that their is other than my belief that I know of which apparently doesn't cut it. But you can't prove there is no god? You just take the evidence and it tells you that, chances are more towards there isn't a god? And until you see evidence for instead of against god you wont believe in him? That makes sense. I'm sorry if I sound mean by asking these questions. I'm simply trying to better understand your beliefs. I'm very new to this. Hahaha

Yes, to have a really good discussion or debate, picking your words carefully is important. We are trying to communicate sometimes complicated ideas or subtle differences (and sometimes simple ideas and differences as subtle as a punch in the noseTongue), so wording is important.

If anyone sounds mean around her, it would be me.Cool

Please continue, I think you are making real progress.

Wait, wait, WAIT just a dagblasted second. How come you weren't this nice to me? Huh?

*grumbles*

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10-01-2012, 04:08 PM
RE: I believe in a higher power, but I love & respect all views & welcome friendly debate
(10-01-2012 04:06 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(10-01-2012 04:04 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(10-01-2012 03:46 PM)Thatweirdkid Wrote:  Haha man I really have to choose my words carefully. I will agree with the "I don't know there isn't a god and you don't know there is". I have no proof to say that their is other than my belief that I know of which apparently doesn't cut it. But you can't prove there is no god? You just take the evidence and it tells you that, chances are more towards there isn't a god? And until you see evidence for instead of against god you wont believe in him? That makes sense. I'm sorry if I sound mean by asking these questions. I'm simply trying to better understand your beliefs. I'm very new to this. Hahaha

Yes, to have a really good discussion or debate, picking your words carefully is important. We are trying to communicate sometimes complicated ideas or subtle differences (and sometimes simple ideas and differences as subtle as a punch in the noseTongue), so wording is important.

If anyone sounds mean around her, it would be me.Cool

Please continue, I think you are making real progress.

Wait, wait, WAIT just a dagblasted second. How come you weren't this nice to me? Huh?

*grumbles*

Because, grasshopper, you didn't make any progress. Exclamation

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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10-01-2012, 04:11 PM
RE: I believe in a higher power, but I love & respect all views & welcome friendly debate
(10-01-2012 04:08 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(10-01-2012 04:06 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(10-01-2012 04:04 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(10-01-2012 03:46 PM)Thatweirdkid Wrote:  Haha man I really have to choose my words carefully. I will agree with the "I don't know there isn't a god and you don't know there is". I have no proof to say that their is other than my belief that I know of which apparently doesn't cut it. But you can't prove there is no god? You just take the evidence and it tells you that, chances are more towards there isn't a god? And until you see evidence for instead of against god you wont believe in him? That makes sense. I'm sorry if I sound mean by asking these questions. I'm simply trying to better understand your beliefs. I'm very new to this. Hahaha

Yes, to have a really good discussion or debate, picking your words carefully is important. We are trying to communicate sometimes complicated ideas or subtle differences (and sometimes simple ideas and differences as subtle as a punch in the noseTongue), so wording is important.

If anyone sounds mean around her, it would be me.Cool

Please continue, I think you are making real progress.

Wait, wait, WAIT just a dagblasted second. How come you weren't this nice to me? Huh?

*grumbles*

Because, grasshopper, you didn't make any progress. Exclamation

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10-01-2012, 04:18 PM
RE: I believe in a higher power, but I love & respect all views & welcome friendly debate
(10-01-2012 04:00 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(10-01-2012 03:53 PM)Thatweirdkid Wrote:  
(10-01-2012 03:33 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(10-01-2012 02:45 PM)Thatweirdkid Wrote:  And God's view of marriage differs from the US definition I know.

So, why are you against gay marriage?

I'd say because it just doesn't seem natural. Like, if it is, then why are animals not gay? I would think it would occur in nature otherwise if it were a genetic thing.

Ummmm... animals are gay. It does occur in nature.

Edit:
Gay animal behavior
List of gay animals

Of course I've never heard this. Hahaha
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10-01-2012, 04:26 PM
RE: I believe in a higher power, but I love & respect all views & welcome friendly debate
(10-01-2012 04:11 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Wait, wait, WAIT just a dagblasted second. How come you weren't this nice to me? Huh?

*grumbles*
(10-01-2012 04:08 PM)Chas Wrote:  Because, grasshopper, you didn't make any progress. Exclamation

Also, because you're not a callow youth and no one called me out for beating on you.Big Grin

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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10-01-2012, 04:36 PM (This post was last modified: 10-01-2012 04:42 PM by ShirubaDangan.)
RE: I believe in a higher power, but I love & respect all views & welcome friendly debate
(10-01-2012 01:26 PM)Thatweirdkid Wrote:  
(10-01-2012 01:01 PM)znk666 Wrote:  Okay comrade first of all welcome!
Second,I would like to get your stance on the following issues:

Gay marriage-I believe that gay marriage is not the definition of marriage that the Bible has and therefore disagree with it. But I am not completely convinced on this. I am not gay and I love and respect gay people, but when their life overlaps mine, I do not like this. For example, if a gay guy where to ask me out. That would not fly. But I am commanded to love them and choose too. They are human too after all.
But I do not believe people are "born gay".


Abortion-
What political ideology do you relate to?- I think all politics are corrupt but we need government, it's just being done incorrectly. But hey that's humans for you. I would say I am closest to the Republican side but I by no means agree with all they say. And as for the Tea Party I'm not sure yet.. Most politicians look out for their own good and not the good of the whole.

What are your thoughts on the republican party?- I think they are right on many of the issues I hold important. But they're not perfect either. I believe politics as we know it is corrupt.


Do you approve of government to be entirely separated from religion?- I think the government should not interfere with Religious organizations except to collect taxes. However I think the Government shouldn't just decide where they want to send the money. They should let the people that pay choose and then make sure they give it. That's just my opinion though. And I think that originally Religion was in government but that was when the majority could decide and agree on how much one could say about god to an extent that it didn't offend anyone. I think now the Government should not implement special recognition of any religion or lack of religion in it's affairs. The common good should come first.

What are your thoughts on corporal punishment?(Domestic/school) I don't really understand the question. Forgive me.

Major reasons for why you believe in a deity/higher power?-I believe in a God majorly because my mind for some reason cannot think of this universe possibly existing without something behind it. I find it much easier to believe that God can take nothing and make something than for something to come from nothing on its own. This disagrees with the 1st law of thermodynamics. matter can only change forms and can't be created or destroyed. I think God can do things we can't so He created matter. I do not believe even when there was nothing there was matter. Either you believe matter has always been, coming from nowhere but still being there somehow, or you believe a supernatural being has always been there that loves you and cares about you and gives you a purpose.

I hope this does not seem...somewhat aimed towards you or in any way mocking.
Oh and yes,enjoy your stay!

It doesn't seem to be aimed toward or mocking. These are legitimate questions you are bringing up.

And thanks! I think I will.

Sorry if we pick you apart like piranha's.

I'd have to say I completely disagree with your stance on Gay marriage. It has been proven that being gay has more to do with genetics rather than choice.

Here is a little cartoon if you'd like to view that shows some data on the issue. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NarI0URhWg0 I'm giving you actual factual evidence that can be studied and proven by science. If you choose to ignore it and believe in a 2000 year old book I understand. I just don't like others saying they like gay people but don't believe they should marry.

Its like saying I don't like interracial couples and I don't believe they should marry(I'm interracial don't worry.) This argument has happened before in United States history. Here is a current example http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocd_wXjurt4 I believe denying a right to any person is not american and the government shouldn't discriminate on marriage by law. The church can do whatever it likes but by government and law it should be for the people.

Also if God hated homosexuality it'd be rather odd that animals in nature are homosexual and that we also have asexual species like this lizard. http://www.scientificamerican.com/articl...al-lizards If God did create things to be perfect then she doesn't mind homosexuality at all.

The United States was based on enlightenment ideals. The most blatant proof is the beginning of the preamble. "We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect Union...." It refers with men deciding among men with no interference of any deity. Also Thomas Jefferson made an interpretation of the first amendment where he stated there was a "separation of church and state."

Madison had also written that: "Strongly guarded is the separation between religion and government in the Constitution of the United States." It is obvious are founding fathers had no confusion over the interpretation of the first amendment which states: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

Most Christians argue because our founding fathers were Christian but that's simply like saying that I believe all humans want peace because I want peace as a human but that certainly is not true with everybody. Just like this, even though they had certain beliefs does not mean they wanted it anywhere near government.

I understand its easier to believe in a God then to try and find the facts ourselves. Though I will take my chance with humanity and find the answers then to just take the easy way out.

If you truly are curious then question! You will not lose anything for thinking for yourself. I'm sorry if I sounded mean and that is not my intention but I will show facts.

I don't like believing in anything. I like to know things.

Hope you do the same.
(10-01-2012 04:18 PM)Thatweirdkid Wrote:  
(10-01-2012 04:00 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(10-01-2012 03:53 PM)Thatweirdkid Wrote:  
(10-01-2012 03:33 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(10-01-2012 02:45 PM)Thatweirdkid Wrote:  And God's view of marriage differs from the US definition I know.

So, why are you against gay marriage?

I'd say because it just doesn't seem natural. Like, if it is, then why are animals not gay? I would think it would occur in nature otherwise if it were a genetic thing.

Ummmm... animals are gay. It does occur in nature.

Edit:
Gay animal behavior
List of gay animals

Of course I've never heard this. Hahaha

Well the radically religious are very good at hiding facts. Remember, look at facts before believing in what anyone tells you. I swear I told my brother he could fly once. He was little and jumped off a tree. Shows you how easy it is to manipulate the youth.

(10-01-2012 04:26 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(10-01-2012 04:11 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Wait, wait, WAIT just a dagblasted second. How come you weren't this nice to me? Huh?

*grumbles*
(10-01-2012 04:08 PM)Chas Wrote:  Because, grasshopper, you didn't make any progress. Exclamation

Also, because you're not a callow youth and no one called me out for beating on you.Big Grin

Why do your arguments always bring a smile to my face?

"Mankind must put an end to war, or war will put an end to mankind." -John F Kennedy

The way to see by Faith is to shut the eye of Reason.” -Benjamin Franklin

It has been a long time. How have you been?
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10-01-2012, 04:56 PM
RE: I believe in a higher power, but I love & respect all views & welcome friendly debate
(10-01-2012 04:36 PM)ShirubaDangan Wrote:  
(10-01-2012 01:26 PM)Thatweirdkid Wrote:  
(10-01-2012 01:01 PM)znk666 Wrote:  Okay comrade first of all welcome!
Second,I would like to get your stance on the following issues:

Gay marriage-I believe that gay marriage is not the definition of marriage that the Bible has and therefore disagree with it. But I am not completely convinced on this. I am not gay and I love and respect gay people, but when their life overlaps mine, I do not like this. For example, if a gay guy where to ask me out. That would not fly. But I am commanded to love them and choose too. They are human too after all.
But I do not believe people are "born gay".


Abortion-
What political ideology do you relate to?- I think all politics are corrupt but we need government, it's just being done incorrectly. But hey that's humans for you. I would say I am closest to the Republican side but I by no means agree with all they say. And as for the Tea Party I'm not sure yet.. Most politicians look out for their own good and not the good of the whole.

What are your thoughts on the republican party?- I think they are right on many of the issues I hold important. But they're not perfect either. I believe politics as we know it is corrupt.


Do you approve of government to be entirely separated from religion?- I think the government should not interfere with Religious organizations except to collect taxes. However I think the Government shouldn't just decide where they want to send the money. They should let the people that pay choose and then make sure they give it. That's just my opinion though. And I think that originally Religion was in government but that was when the majority could decide and agree on how much one could say about god to an extent that it didn't offend anyone. I think now the Government should not implement special recognition of any religion or lack of religion in it's affairs. The common good should come first.

What are your thoughts on corporal punishment?(Domestic/school) I don't really understand the question. Forgive me.

Major reasons for why you believe in a deity/higher power?-I believe in a God majorly because my mind for some reason cannot think of this universe possibly existing without something behind it. I find it much easier to believe that God can take nothing and make something than for something to come from nothing on its own. This disagrees with the 1st law of thermodynamics. matter can only change forms and can't be created or destroyed. I think God can do things we can't so He created matter. I do not believe even when there was nothing there was matter. Either you believe matter has always been, coming from nowhere but still being there somehow, or you believe a supernatural being has always been there that loves you and cares about you and gives you a purpose.

I hope this does not seem...somewhat aimed towards you or in any way mocking.
Oh and yes,enjoy your stay!

It doesn't seem to be aimed toward or mocking. These are legitimate questions you are bringing up.

And thanks! I think I will.

Sorry if we pick you apart like piranha's.

Haha well I had to get used to it one way or another. Lol

I'd have to say I completely disagree with your stance on Gay marriage. It has been proven that being gay has more to do with genetics rather than choice.

Honestly, I haven't made a stance on gay marriage per say. I just claimed one. Which is foolish. The only thing I don't get is why gay people can't reproduce. You would think if it was an evolved thing that it would have come far enough to reproduce in those millions of years. I mean there's been plenty of time.

Here is a little cartoon if you'd like to view that shows some data on the issue. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NarI0URhWg0 I'm giving you actual factual evidence that can be studied and proven by science. If you choose to ignore it and believe in a 2000 year old book I understand. I just don't like others saying they like gay people but don't believe they should marry.

I do not choose to ignore anything. I investigate all I hear. I don't believe just because someone has told me.

Its like saying I don't like interracial couples and I don't believe they should marry(I'm interracial don't worry.) This argument has happened before in United States history. Here is a current example http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocd_wXjurt4 I believe denying a right to any person is not american and the government shouldn't discriminate on marriage by law. The church can do whatever it likes but by government and law it should be for the people.

So then people can marry what they want to. Such as pillow, board, dildo, whatever? Btw I know a guy that wants to marry his right hand. Lol. I just don't see it as right. The purpose of marriage is to be with someone for life and only them and to reproduce. So if they can't reproduce why get married? They can already live together...

Also if God hated homosexuality it'd be rather odd that animals in nature are homosexual and that we also have asexual species like this lizard. http://www.scientificamerican.com/articl...al-lizards If God did create things to be perfect then she doesn't mind homosexuality at all.

I do not know anywhere near all that I want to know. But I thank people like you for educating me on it. I try to find out as much as I can for myself. But walking into and encyclopedia blind can be very stressful.

The United States was based on enlightenment ideals. The most blatant proof is the beginning of the preamble. "We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect Union...." It refers with men deciding among men with no interference of any deity. Also Thomas Jefferson made an interpretation of the first amendment where he stated there was a "separation of church and state."

Madison had also written that: "Strongly guarded is the separation between religion and government in the Constitution of the United States." It is obvious are founding fathers had no confusion over the interpretation of the first amendment which states: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

Most Christians argue because our founding fathers were Christian but that's simply like saying that I believe all humans want peace because I want peace as a human but that certainly is not true with everybody. Just like this, even though they had certain beliefs does not mean they wanted it anywhere near government.

And not all of our founders were Christians. Most believed in God but they weren't all Christians.

I understand its easier to believe in a God then to try and find the facts ourselves. Though I will take my chance with humanity and find the answers then to just take the easy way out.

Personally I think the easiest stance is the apatheists. SO much easier to say is there a god isn't there? I don't care. You are exempt from any responsibility from anything. Believing in God isn't always the easy way. So many things I have to question and look up.


If you truly are curious then question! You will not lose anything for thinking for yourself. I'm sorry if I sounded mean and that is not my intention but I will show facts.

Believe you me I will continue to question! I don't think I can not question anything.

I don't like believing in anything. I like to know things.

I like to do both but that's just me Tongue

Hope you do the same.
(10-01-2012 04:18 PM)Thatweirdkid Wrote:  
(10-01-2012 04:00 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(10-01-2012 03:53 PM)Thatweirdkid Wrote:  
(10-01-2012 03:33 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  So, why are you against gay marriage?

I'd say because it just doesn't seem natural. Like, if it is, then why are animals not gay? I would think it would occur in nature otherwise if it were a genetic thing.

Ummmm... animals are gay. It does occur in nature.

Edit:
Gay animal behavior
List of gay animals

Of course I've never heard this. Hahaha

Well the radically religious are very good at hiding facts. Remember, look at facts before believing in what anyone tells you. I swear I told my brother he could fly once. He was little and jumped off a tree. Shows you how easy it is to manipulate the youth.

(10-01-2012 04:26 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(10-01-2012 04:11 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Wait, wait, WAIT just a dagblasted second. How come you weren't this nice to me? Huh?

*grumbles*
(10-01-2012 04:08 PM)Chas Wrote:  Because, grasshopper, you didn't make any progress. Exclamation

Also, because you're not a callow youth and no one called me out for beating on you.Big Grin

Why do your arguments always bring a smile to my face?
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