I believe the Bible teaches correct morals (mostly)...
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23-09-2017, 04:01 AM
RE: I believe the Bible teaches correct morals (mostly)...
(23-09-2017 03:47 AM)Thinker Wrote:  
(23-09-2017 03:44 AM)Robvalue Wrote:  Most atheists here think Christianity is stupid and dangerous I would say, but that doesn't mean we hate Christians. Being impartial doesn't mean having no opinions at all. When Christians come here and act politely, they are generally met politely. It's not assumed they are bad people before they've said anything. Of course, some people may have the opinion that being Christian makes them a bad person. That's up to them, and we're not responsible for what other atheists may think.

Personally, I don't judge any particular person until I've heard what their particular beliefs are and what actions they take. "Being Christian" doesn't tell me very much, since people can pretty much make up whatever they want and call it Christian.

While most atheists do not mean to hate Christianity, I never say it to be stupid and dangerous either.

If you understand the disciplinary history and how time changes, you'll understand that back in the dark and feudal ages - before the advent of science, religion was one way to justify and interpret the mysteries.

In political history, one cannot reach democracy without imperium first. The same evolutionary and civilisational principle may apply to reaching science and fully scientific mentality worldwide.

Sure, I don't mean to speak for everyone. I'm just noting trends I have experienced.

I think the ideas of Christianity are stupid because they are fairy stories, and they are dangerous because they are often anti-intellectual, anti-science, bigoted and divisive. This is the case with most religions.

But if you don't think they are, that's fine.

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
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23-09-2017, 04:07 AM
RE: I believe the Bible teaches correct morals (mostly)...
(23-09-2017 03:25 AM)Thinker Wrote:  Magic is a measure of how complex something is that eludes our intelligence. This includes quantum physics to integrated chipsets and superstring theory. Do not pejoratively classify magic amongst pseudoscientific stuff - you're better than such stupid, naïve and unimaginative anti-debunkers alike.

Equating the unknown with magic is the very sort of misguided bullshit that allows people to rationalize positive belief in the unfounded.

'Quantum mechanics used to be magic, but there was something there; so maybe there's something to the magic behind telepathy/homeopathy/souls/etc.?'

Honest people simply admit when they do not know something, rather than giving it a label (magic) that can so easily be purposely misconstrued.

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23-09-2017, 04:22 AM
RE: I believe the Bible teaches correct morals (mostly)...
(23-09-2017 02:02 AM)wendigo Wrote:  ... My wife just made a good point: most of you aren't really impartial atheists at all, but rather pointedly anti-Christians. Anyway, no need to beat a dead horse here. Have a nice week everyone.

And your wife is suitably qualified to make this profound assertion how? No

There's no such thing as an "impartial" atheist. There's no relativity about atheism—you either is or you ain't. End of story.

I'm certainly not "anti-Christian", but once again your use of this term only indicates that you have little concept of what true atheism is and what atheists are all about.

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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23-09-2017, 04:25 AM (This post was last modified: 23-09-2017 05:45 AM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: I believe the Bible teaches correct morals (mostly)...
(23-09-2017 03:47 AM)Thinker Wrote:  While most atheists do not mean to hate Christianity, I never say it to be stupid and dangerous either.

How is a belief structure that facilitates bad ways of thinking anything but dangerous?


(23-09-2017 03:47 AM)Thinker Wrote:  If you understand the disciplinary history and how time changes, you'll understand that back in the dark and feudal ages - before the advent of science, religion was one way to justify and interpret the mysteries.

Did you miss the part where the Dark Ages were a step back, how what scientific progress made in the classical era was burned to the ground by Christianity and mostly spared from complete extinction by the Muslims? Religion might be one way to interpret the world, but we know it is the wrong way. Sir Francis Collins made great contributions to science, but when he writes that seeing three frozen waterfalls while hiking convinced him of the truth of the Trinity, we're obliged to tell him he's full of shit; thank him for his work on DNA, but that doesn't give him a free pass for his bullshit.


(23-09-2017 03:47 AM)Thinker Wrote:  In political history, one cannot reach democracy without imperium first. The same evolutionary and civilisational principle may apply to reaching science and fully scientific mentality worldwide.

Unless I'm mistaken, the Greek Philosophers who envisioned the concept of modern democracy easily predated Roman imperialism. Plus primitive democracy, or tribalism, is one of the oldest governing styles, because it works relatively well in smaller groups and quickly gets far more complicated the larger the group gets. So in early tightly knit communities, getting everyone together to reach a majority consensus was just easier. You do not need imperium to get to democracy; indeed commanding larger areas with spread out populations makes democracy far harder to implement, which is why ancient Rome was a republic.



So, in short, what in the actual fuck are you talking about?

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23-09-2017, 04:42 AM
RE: I believe the Bible teaches correct morals (mostly)...
(23-09-2017 03:25 AM)Thinker Wrote:  
(23-09-2017 03:19 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  We're anti-stupid, we're anti-unjustifiable assumptions, we're anti-presupposition.

We're anti-magical thinking.

But if you want to give a pass to magical thinking just because it sometimes gets things right on accident? If you're perfectly fine with allowing the underlying unjustifiable assumptions that sit at the core of all religions, conspiracies, and associated woo beliefs, to just fester unchecked and uncorrected? I'd argue that makes you the bigger asshole.

It's not enough to just stumble upon the right answer, knowing the how and why are crucial components to knowledge. How we come to our conclusions, and our respect for logic, reason, and evidence, is important. Those things matter to me, and to most of the people on this forum. Being a good person isn't enough if you come to that conclusion for bad reasons and thinking. The person who thinks their god tells them to volunteer at a homeless shelter is probably less harmful than the person who thinks their god tells them to kill all the blasphemers, but they're both using the same flawed reasoning, and neither can prove to that the other is wrong in their belief. That is the very heart of the problem. 'Good' Christians have no footing to denounce 'Bad' Christians because they can both quote from the same book and claim the same god on their side, and nobody gets anywhere. Because of this, many of us are not inclined to give a pass to 'Good' Christians; because woo-woo bullshit is still woo-woo bullshit, even is some of it is immediately less obviously harmful.

But apparently you give zero fucks about that. We're all a bug bunch of meanies because we care about the underlying causes, and don't give theists a pass just because they're not being explicit assholes in the immediate here and now.


So I say fuck homeopathy, chiropractors, and other quack doctors for peddling bullshit to people in need of real medicine.

Fuck new age charlatans pushing psychic powers, astrology, and fortune telling to profit upon each new credulous generation.

Fuck religions for trying to monopolize ethics, while simultaneously being one of the largest forces for cultural regression and violations of human rights and dignity.

And fuck you and your wife for coming here and trying to give us shit because you don't care enough about the truth to challenge the status quo.

Magic is a measure of how complex something is that eludes our intelligence. This includes quantum physics to integrated chipsets and superstring theory. Do not pejoratively classify magic amongst pseudoscientific stuff - you're better than such stupid, naïve and unimaginative anti-debunkers alike.

Magic is made up thing interesting in fantasy stories but irrelevant IRL. Quantum physics is no magic no matter how hard you will try to spread such idiocy.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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23-09-2017, 05:34 AM
RE: I believe the Bible teaches correct morals (mostly)...
(23-09-2017 02:02 AM)wendigo Wrote:  Yes good point. We should take the good out of that as well, and rightfully assume that most of the followers are decent people. It's telling however, that the majority of the religious threads around here are about christian deconversion and so on, because most of the folks here are not coming from Islam. My wife just made a good point: most of you aren't really impartial atheists at all, but rather pointendly anti-christians. Anyway, no need to beat a dead horse here. Have a nice week everyone.

Rofl.....telling what? Are you too stupid to realize a large portion of us are American, and are you too stupid to realize that Christianity is by far the religion with the most influence in America...especially if you live in the south? Why the fuck would we talk about Islam as much as we talk about Christianity when it has a far less influence directly? Why is this a point that has to keep being made to thick headed people like you?

But since you are so apparently thick, let me break it down further for you. Here in Tennessee, the only thing that Muslims have tried to do is build mosques to worship in, and guess who constantly tries to block them? Christians. Mulsims arent' the ones trying to stop same sex marriage here; Muslims aren't the ones making laws pandering straight to their religion. Christians are.

Your wife makes the same dumbass "point" you made, so both of you GFY.
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23-09-2017, 05:53 AM
RE: I believe the Bible teaches correct morals (mostly)...
(22-09-2017 10:15 AM)Jedi Rainbow Dash Wrote:  
Quote:Core ideas, that is the Sunday School roster. I get your immediate aversion to anything that might be written in the bible, but I don't think all atheists reject all that is good (in a biblical sense) simply to be contrary to what they perceive as an opposing viewpoint. For example, I oppose a lot of the lifestyles and attitudes that are typically attributed to atheists because they make no sense in the long run, evolution-wise, and are destructive to families and well-being.

Would this be the baby eating or the satanic orgies?

Maybe Wendigo should tell us exactly what exactly these lifestyles and attitudes are that make no sense in the long run, evolution-wise and which are destructive to families and well-being.

Because if all an atheist means is you don't believe in the existence of a god then he must be suggesting that these destructive tendencies he is referring to comes from that.

Or is he making the usual theist mistake (even though he claims he isn't one) of assuming that atheists think alike and are another religion?
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23-09-2017, 06:00 AM
RE: I believe the Bible teaches correct morals (mostly)...
(23-09-2017 03:25 AM)Thinker Wrote:  Magic is a measure of how complex something is that eludes our intelligence. This includes quantum physics to integrated chipsets and superstring theory. Do not pejoratively classify magic amongst pseudoscientific stuff - you're better than such stupid, naïve and unimaginative anti-debunkers alike.

We already do have a word/phrase for your definition of "magic", its called "i dont know". Your description is redundant and misleading.
"Magic "is mostly an intellectually lazy excuse for the ignorant, or a tool to avoid saying "i dont know" for those who are uncomfortable in saying so. Just because somebody cant understand certain tings doenst make these things "magic".

I am an electronic engineer and know pretty well how integrated circuits work. You dont. To you its maybe magic. To me its not. Since we live in a shared reality where something can be objectively measured and judged, it can be demonstrated that those who claim quantum physics, chips and string theory are "magic" are just plain wrong.

P.S.: dont take Terry Pratchett too serious next time

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23-09-2017, 06:03 AM
RE: I believe the Bible teaches correct morals (mostly)...
(23-09-2017 06:00 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  
(23-09-2017 03:25 AM)Thinker Wrote:  Magic is a measure of how complex something is that eludes our intelligence. This includes quantum physics to integrated chipsets and superstring theory. Do not pejoratively classify magic amongst pseudoscientific stuff - you're better than such stupid, naïve and unimaginative anti-debunkers alike.

We already do have a word/phrase for your definition of "magic", its called "i dont know". Your description is redundant and misleading.
"Magic "is mostly an intellectually lazy excuse for the ignorant, or a tool to avoid saying "i dont know" for those who are uncomfortable in saying so. Just because somebody cant understand certain tings doenst make these things "magic".

I am an electronic engineer and know pretty well how integrated circuits work. You dont. To you its maybe magic. To me its not. Since we live in a shared reality where something can be objectively measured and judged, it can be demonstrated that those who claim quantum physics, chips and string theory are "magic" are just plain wrong.

P.S.: dont take Terry Pratchett too serious next time

We are not conscious or being rational even 99% of the times. We do acknowledge that magic is part of the unknown or a gap of knowledge that needs filling in with scientific intelligence.

I doubt that anyone would want to invest energy X-raying the reality 24 hours 7 days if that is what you're meaning, no?
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23-09-2017, 06:08 AM (This post was last modified: 23-09-2017 07:28 AM by Mathilda.)
RE: I believe the Bible teaches correct morals (mostly)...
(21-09-2017 04:09 PM)wendigo Wrote:  Yes, I said it. The moral compass as made famous by the Holy Bible aligns (almost) perfectly with my gut feeling on right and wrong, biology, etc. I feel that to deny the obvious core ideas at the heart of the bible is folly, not because a God commands it, but because it makes moral, biological/evolutional and physical sense.


Having said that, I was raised atheist, and think that the idea of a "God" writing a scripture for human beings to follow overflows all borders on the ridiculous. How to reconcile this with modern ideas on political correctness?

So where do these morals come from? What makes something right or wrong?

Because if you are telling the truth and don't believe that a god commanded them, then you must either believe that there is no right or wrong, or that they come from somewhere else.

You obviously believe that there is such thing as right or wrong otherwise you wouldn't be trying to tell us that the Bible teaches correct morals.

So you must believe that they come from somewhere else. You have often referred to morals making a 'biological/evolutional and physical sense'.

So if the morals from biological instincts for example, why do we need the Bible to tell us what is morally right or wrong? Why not go straight to the source and listen to our own instincts and collectively figure it out as we currently are doing?
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