I believe the Bible teaches correct morals (mostly)...
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24-09-2017, 08:42 PM
RE: I believe the Bible teaches correct morals (mostly)...
(23-09-2017 09:21 PM)jerry mcmasters Wrote:  
(23-09-2017 09:09 PM)Anjele Wrote:  Wendigo, if really atheist, seems to think all atheists should be the same and that is just like him.

He's not the first to waltz in here and tell us why we are wrong. He'll not be the last...especially since so many people fall for and support this crap...like they have never seen it before and are taken in by it.

What the heck was "it" and who the heck was taken in by it?

WHAT...IS...IT???

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24-09-2017, 08:52 PM
RE: I believe the Bible teaches correct morals (mostly)...
(23-09-2017 08:02 PM)JAH Wrote:  I went back and reread much of the first 10 pages. I came to the conclusion that my first post here gave wendigo too much credit. I will stand by my statement that there is no reason for incivility to another poster but being a person with anger issues I can see why that happens.

I generally agree about incivility but at the same time, when someone becomes combative when someone simply disagrees, then starts making invalid accusations and broad judgements, they aren't exactly welcoming honest discussion.

I'm pretty sure he was a troll trying to pretend to be an atheist. I don't know of any atheist who calls it the "Holy Bible" unless they are being sarcastic; and if I had to guess he is someone who has had several run ins with atheists online, got his ass handed to him in debates and is now suffering from a severe case of butthurt, so he thought he'd try a stealth approach.
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24-09-2017, 11:44 PM
RE: I believe the Bible teaches correct morals (mostly)...
I think the possibilities are:

1) Theist pretending to be an atheist (there's a lot of telltale signs of this)
2) Complete troll just here to annoy us
3) Someone who considers themselves superior to both theists and (all other) atheists

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
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25-09-2017, 07:37 AM
RE: I believe the Bible teaches correct morals (mostly)...
(21-09-2017 04:09 PM)wendigo Wrote:  Yes, I said it. The moral compass as made famous by the Holy Bible aligns (almost) perfectly with my gut feeling on right and wrong, biology, etc. I feel that to deny the obvious core ideas at the heart of the bible is folly, not because a God commands it, but because it makes moral, biological/evolutional and physical sense.


Having said that, I was raised atheist, and think that the idea of a "God" writing a scripture for human beings to follow overflows all borders on the ridiculous. How to reconcile this with modern ideas on political correctness?

The more I read this openning post, the more I feel like it's a cluster of ''dogwistle'' designed to support an antifeminist world view. The mention that the Bible present ''good familly values'' that make sense on a ''biological/evolutionnary'' ground are, in my experience, a strong clue toward this conclusion. The mention of ''modern ideas on political correctness'' as well as his ''defense'' of his wife honor are simply icing on the cake.

I think that Wendigo wanted to share something he agreed on with most Christian in general. A support for a paternalist and dismissive, but not hateful or contemptfull vision of women that he feels is supported both by science and religion, thus that it must correct. Of course, as a feminist I tend to be overly sensitive to sexist ''dogwistles'' which means I sometime mischaracterise some comments like these. Do you think I am on point with this one?

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25-09-2017, 08:26 AM
RE: I believe the Bible teaches correct morals (mostly)...
Religious people use these books like rule books but rules cannot be static.

They need to evolve to adapt to advancing knowledge and moral standards in order to be able to fit in with society.

These religious books have one massive problem. They are said to be the words of gods so you cannot change what’s written down. The problem is that, now that pretty much all of the more scientifically based explanations have all been disproved, what is left is a bunch of rules which are frozen in time and thousands of years out of date.

That is why most Countries have some sort of parliament which sits most days of the year constantly updating laws to junk ones that are no longer fit for purpose, bringing in new laws or tinkering and amending existing laws.

Of course, some of the rules in these religious books are still valid but others we have learned over time are highly prejudiced and deeply wrong. Things like “Thou shalt not be a paedophile” are totally missing because the moral standards of the people who lived 2,000 years ago simply hadn’t evolved that far.

Because religion is stuck with their frozen in time rules their leaders have to constantly twist themselves in knots to try and reinterpret the words in these books to make them fit in with modern society. It has taken nearly 2,000 years to get women priests and bishops, gay marriage is still only allowed in a select few countries and in some places being gay is still illegal and punishable by death.

The trouble with having to keep trying to reinterpret these books is that the meaning of things is now so unclear, and it really changes depending who is doing the reinterpreting and what their particular motives are. The more good hearted will say the meaning is all about peace and love while some will twist the meaning into a motive for violence and killing.
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25-09-2017, 09:33 AM
RE: I believe the Bible teaches correct morals (mostly)...
(23-09-2017 05:41 PM)JAH Wrote:  I have to say that I think wendigo has been harshly treated here. He was making a point that may be very flawed but one that a lot of people hold even some atheists which he said he was...

You may have missed Wendigo's post wherein he said...

Quote:I have never in my life met a group of more cringey, pathetic slaptards as I've found in here. Not all but a large portion... you're just a collection of self righteous opinionated cellar nerds half way around the world in an unenlightened cluster-fuck backward consumer plantation.

Shocking

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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25-09-2017, 10:07 AM
RE: I believe the Bible teaches correct morals (mostly)...
(25-09-2017 08:26 AM)MarylinC Wrote:  Religious people use these books like rule books but rules cannot be static.

They need to evolve to adapt to advancing knowledge and moral standards in order to be able to fit in with society.

These religious books have one massive problem. They are said to be the words of gods so you cannot change what’s written down. The problem is that, now that pretty much all of the more scientifically based explanations have all been disproved, what is left is a bunch of rules which are frozen in time and thousands of years out of date.

That is why most Countries have some sort of parliament which sits most days of the year constantly updating laws to junk ones that are no longer fit for purpose, bringing in new laws or tinkering and amending existing laws.

Of course, some of the rules in these religious books are still valid but others we have learned over time are highly prejudiced and deeply wrong. Things like “Thou shalt not be a paedophile” are totally missing because the moral standards of the people who lived 2,000 years ago simply hadn’t evolved that far.

Because religion is stuck with their frozen in time rules their leaders have to constantly twist themselves in knots to try and reinterpret the words in these books to make them fit in with modern society. It has taken nearly 2,000 years to get women priests and bishops, gay marriage is still only allowed in a select few countries and in some places being gay is still illegal and punishable by death.

The trouble with having to keep trying to reinterpret these books is that the meaning of things is now so unclear, and it really changes depending who is doing the reinterpreting and what their particular motives are. The more good hearted will say the meaning is all about peace and love while some will twist the meaning into a motive for violence and killing.

For some of us, it's less the sense the meanings are unclear as more of a case of, How do we explain this to anyone, at least in my own tradition, how 1st century cultural norms or expectations do not work in a 21st century world. At least if you take the literalist viewpoint rather then a and I know I'm going to get feedback for this term, but it's the only real way I can couch it, a spiritual literalism. That means while terms are redefined, the core message is still applicable. That one can be gay, lesbian,trans, non-binary,asexual and so on. And still, if they choose to, make sense of it.

And you're right, civil society is far more adept at overhauling laws that no longer apply, or adding new definitions. The problem with religion is that fundamentalist ideal that you are breaking something that should be, to them, unbreakable.

We're likely going to struggle with this still, we've made some progress. Not a lot, and less then I would like personally. and we'll certainly have those that scream about "how dare you mess with God's word>" "Or the Koran is God breathed" and thus cannot be touched. But I like to also be hopeful that with culture becoming far more inclusive, less hostile to essentially, anything that isn't a White Male Christian, that maybe that part of religion will improve.

-If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor. If an elephant has its foot on the tail of a mouse and you say that you are neutral, the mouse will not appreciate your neutrality.
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25-09-2017, 10:27 AM
RE: I believe the Bible teaches correct morals (mostly)...
(25-09-2017 10:07 AM)Targaryen Wrote:  maybe that part of religion will improve.

We tend to the view that ditching it is a good improvement Tongue

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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25-09-2017, 10:28 AM
RE: I believe the Bible teaches correct morals (mostly)...
(25-09-2017 10:27 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(25-09-2017 10:07 AM)Targaryen Wrote:  maybe that part of religion will improve.

We tend to the view that ditching it is a good improvement Tongue
Well obviously Wink

-If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor. If an elephant has its foot on the tail of a mouse and you say that you are neutral, the mouse will not appreciate your neutrality.
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25-09-2017, 10:31 AM
RE: I believe the Bible teaches correct morals (mostly)...
(25-09-2017 10:28 AM)Targaryen Wrote:  
(25-09-2017 10:27 AM)morondog Wrote:  We tend to the view that ditching it is a good improvement Tongue
Well obviously Wink

Seriously, what about religion is valuable that can't be replaced with secular alternatives?

Maybe more direct to the point, I'm assuming you believe in some kind of personal god that interacts with the world so the question is.... why believe that?

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