I believe the Bible teaches correct morals (mostly)...
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25-09-2017, 01:07 PM
RE: I believe the Bible teaches correct morals (mostly)...
(25-09-2017 11:51 AM)Targaryen Wrote:  I wouldn't call myself a Christian if I didn't personally believe it. Jesus to me isn't some metaphor, that for me, he did do the what you'd call superhuman or mythical things ascribed to him. And yes, I'm well aware of how that sounds to you. but for me, yeah, it could be seen as a fairy tale or a dangerous superstition but for me was, if the Divine is rel, that the stories are based on some crazy facts, then it makes perfect sense,to a Theist that a Divine would give up his life for our own tendency at times, and history can prove this, that humankind is a always bound to make mistakes. Or to use the Christian term, sin.

So, what? You mean you actually believe that the creator of the universe knocked up an illiterate married virgin in order to be born kinda-sorta-maybe-just-a-little-bit-mortal so he could eventually suffer a bad weekend and be temporarily inconvenienced so he could fix the sins he created before going right back to ruling over the universe for eternity?

Doesn't sound so divine when you break it down to it's base elements, huh?

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25-09-2017, 01:12 PM
RE: I believe the Bible teaches correct morals (mostly)...
(25-09-2017 01:07 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(25-09-2017 11:51 AM)Targaryen Wrote:  I wouldn't call myself a Christian if I didn't personally believe it. Jesus to me isn't some metaphor, that for me, he did do the what you'd call superhuman or mythical things ascribed to him. And yes, I'm well aware of how that sounds to you. but for me, yeah, it could be seen as a fairy tale or a dangerous superstition but for me was, if the Divine is rel, that the stories are based on some crazy facts, then it makes perfect sense,to a Theist that a Divine would give up his life for our own tendency at times, and history can prove this, that humankind is a always bound to make mistakes. Or to use the Christian term, sin.

So, what? You mean you actually believe that the creator of the universe knocked up an illiterate married virgin in order to be born kinda-sorta-maybe-just-a-little-bit-mortal so he could eventually suffer a bad weekend and be temporarily inconvenienced so he could fix the sins he created before going right back to ruling over the universe for eternity?

Doesn't sound so divine when you break it down to it's base elements, huh?
If you choose to see it that way, I suppose.

-If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor. If an elephant has its foot on the tail of a mouse and you say that you are neutral, the mouse will not appreciate your neutrality.
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25-09-2017, 01:29 PM (This post was last modified: 25-09-2017 02:15 PM by morondog.)
RE: I believe the Bible teaches correct morals (mostly)...
(25-09-2017 01:12 PM)Targaryen Wrote:  
(25-09-2017 01:07 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  So, what? You mean you actually believe that the creator of the universe knocked up an illiterate married virgin in order to be born kinda-sorta-maybe-just-a-little-bit-mortal so he could eventually suffer a bad weekend and be temporarily inconvenienced so he could fix the sins he created before going right back to ruling over the universe for eternity?

Doesn't sound so divine when you break it down to it's base elements, huh?
If you choose to see it that way, I suppose.

Do you believe in your own mind that this virgin birth with accompanying angels happened in this objective world which is not in your own mind? If so, why? I mean, sure you're free to say "I just do"... but it just seems bizarre. I'm never gonna adopt the idea that I was born as a result of worms eating the body of Ymir the primordial ice giant. It makes zero sense. Why would you adopt a belief without justification?

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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25-09-2017, 01:39 PM
RE: I believe the Bible teaches correct morals (mostly)...
(25-09-2017 11:21 AM)Targaryen Wrote:  I, as a theist, a progressive one as you would list , don't think that somehow every atheist is flawed and needs to be corrected. That their morals are out of alignment, that type of horse shit. Frankly, I hate that about any religion or how people use it that way.

What the fuck's a "progressive" theist? A theist is a theist is a theist. Regardless of whether you're progressive or regressive, you still have a belief in supernatural entities and paranormal phenomena. Which defines precisely what you are. It sounds to me very much like you're attempting to make out you're a smarter or a better theist than other theists.

And I'm sure we all thank you for your generous conclusion that not all atheists are flawed, and need "correction"—whatever you mean by that smug little comment.

Quote:Religion has been used that way since time immemorial, but secularism to has it's own dark periods. I mean off the top of my head I could look at the French Revolution and how that Enlightened period kinda ran amok for a while.

Like most theists, you're living in the past (the French revolution LOL). What happened 100 years ago or a thousand years ago is neither here nor there. Unlike theists (and you?) we atheists are living in an enlightened, articulate, science-based 21st-century society.

Quote:But I did say I was weird already.

Duly noted. Confused

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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25-09-2017, 01:43 PM
RE: I believe the Bible teaches correct morals (mostly)...
(23-09-2017 03:25 AM)Thinker Wrote:  Do not pejoratively classify magic amongst pseudoscientific stuff

That's not a pejorative classification; it's an accurate classification.

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25-09-2017, 01:44 PM
RE: I believe the Bible teaches correct morals (mostly)...
(25-09-2017 01:39 PM)SYZ Wrote:  What the fuck's a "progressive" theist?

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25-09-2017, 01:45 PM (This post was last modified: 25-09-2017 01:50 PM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: I believe the Bible teaches correct morals (mostly)...
(25-09-2017 01:12 PM)Targaryen Wrote:  
(25-09-2017 01:07 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  So, what? You mean you actually believe that the creator of the universe knocked up an illiterate married virgin in order to be born kinda-sorta-maybe-just-a-little-bit-mortal so he could eventually suffer a bad weekend and be temporarily inconvenienced so he could fix the sins he created before going right back to ruling over the universe for eternity?

Doesn't sound so divine when you break it down to it's base elements, huh?
If you choose to see it that way, I suppose.

What other way is there to see it? The core tenants of the story are nonsensical and self-contradictory. If you come here and say 'yes, I'm a Christian, I believe this stuff actually happened', then you have a mountain of explaining to do.


The all powerful creator of the universe, the very being responsible for creating everything including evil itself, for some unexplained reason cannot forgive sin without a human blood sacrifice.

Said blood sacrifice is itself born by raping a virgin who was already married to another man, so that it could experience mortality before being tortured to death, only to come back a few days later to resume it's position of ruler of all creation for eternity.


Even if you take the story as literally true, at face value, Jesus was inconvenienced for a long weekend for your sins.


Now that entire story is a nonsensical piece of literary fiction and propaganda, but seeing as how I don't think it actually happened, I'm not burdened with needing to defend it in public with a straight face.

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25-09-2017, 01:53 PM
RE: I believe the Bible teaches correct morals (mostly)...
(23-09-2017 05:41 PM)JAH Wrote:  I have to say that I think wendigo has been harshly treated here. He was making a point that may be very flawed but one that a lot of people hold even some atheists which he said he was. Some of the early responses about the not so nice aspects of bible morality, particularly from the old testament were spot on. But please the "sermon on the mount" has its moments. And no I did not reread it and will not, so don't climb all over me for the parts that are not so good.

But the responses as time went on got far too personal and nasty. Some obviously assuming because of the title of the thread and the OP itself that he was a christian.

And, shall we be perfectly honest the various forms of christianity catch a lot of shit here. Far more then judaism which has a whole country that is fucking up its neighbors. Or islam which through various mechanisms is fucking up its own countries and its neighbors.

wendigo seemed for the most part sincere. He was not like the occasional christian troll that shows up. I think he should have been thoroughly disabused of his ideas but I think it could have been done in a much less combative manner.

<shrug> He may be sincere, but he also seems rather thin-skinned and quick to judge.

For fuck's sake, you can post "nice day" in some on-line fora and six out of ten responders will argue with you. He made a deliberately controversial post in a place pretty much guaranteed to provoke maximum response. If it wasn't a deliberate troll, then he's pretty naïve not to have expected exactly the response he got.

At this point, I'm leaning towards "deliberate troll".

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25-09-2017, 01:59 PM (This post was last modified: 25-09-2017 02:33 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: I believe the Bible teaches correct morals (mostly)...
(25-09-2017 01:05 PM)Targaryen Wrote:  
(25-09-2017 12:58 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Jesus was a shaman. If I turned your water into wine and dosed it with some hallucinogens and dissociatives you'd think I could do miraculous things too. (Which of course, I can.)

If you can find many that grew in that area of the Levant in the First Century, perhaps.

Gymnopilus junonius, panaeolus fimicola, peganum harmala, nymphaea caerulea, cannabis sativa, acacia nilotica, catha edulis, atropa belladonna, hyoscyamus niger, mandragora officinarum, phragmites australis, phalaris arundinacea, ... there are more, do you need more? Bufo verrucosissimus.

#sigh
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25-09-2017, 02:10 PM
RE: I believe the Bible teaches correct morals (mostly)...
(25-09-2017 12:19 PM)Targaryen Wrote:  
(25-09-2017 12:07 PM)unfogged Wrote:  I haven't heard anything that explains why you believe in a god or anything supernatural.

I explain why I do. It doesn't actually concern me if it is incomprehensible to you. again, I'm not a dancing bear.

Uh... no you haven't. Can you tell me why you accept, in totality, the notion that a supernatural entity—such as your god—created our world, mankind, and everything else in it? In preference to the scientific evidence that's generally accepted as proof of our origins and evolution.

BTW, if you dance to the tune of a 2,500-year-old book cobbled together by a disparate group of ill-educated desert nomads who believed in magic and thought the earth was flat, then... you might just be that bear.

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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