I believe the Bible teaches correct morals (mostly)...
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26-09-2017, 07:13 AM
RE: I believe the Bible teaches correct morals (mostly)...
(26-09-2017 06:31 AM)wendigo Wrote:  
(26-09-2017 04:40 AM)morondog Wrote:  Go shove a stick up your arse or something. You know. What you normally do when you're not fucking up a perfectly decent forum.

Would that be the same perfect forum where people with opposing viewpoints are told to shove sticks in their asses? Reminds me of the other poster who wrote, "You can fuck right off. I'm very open minded".
He said "perfectly decent", not "perfect".

We're all open minded here, just not on-board with complete fucktards who think they are smarter than everybody else. That applies to theists and atheists alike. Your OP reads like "Yeah, I'm an atheist, you know what that's like right, so you must agree with me?" but is just full of nonsense garbage.

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26-09-2017, 07:27 AM
RE: I believe the Bible teaches correct morals (mostly)...
(26-09-2017 06:31 AM)wendigo Wrote:  Would that be the same perfect forum where people with opposing viewpoints trolls baiting and then crying persecution are told to shove sticks in their asses?".
Um no, you don't get to misrepresent the facts that way.
Fixed.

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26-09-2017, 07:42 AM (This post was last modified: 26-09-2017 08:23 AM by Thoreauvian.)
RE: I believe the Bible teaches correct morals (mostly)...
(21-09-2017 04:09 PM)wendigo Wrote:  The moral compass as made famous by the Holy Bible aligns (almost) perfectly with my gut feeling on right and wrong, biology, etc. I feel that to deny the obvious core ideas at the heart of the bible is folly, not because a God commands it, but because it makes moral, biological/evolutional and physical sense.

Modern people cherry pick the Bible for moral ideas they agree with. Their gut assessments are likely similar to your gut assessments in doing their cherry picking, since you are all from the same modern culture. So of course that doesn't prove the cherry picked ideas are "obviously core ideas." Therefore opposing such an assessment is not folly at all, since it depends on misattribution.

This is what other posters have said, and I agree with them.
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26-09-2017, 08:42 AM
RE: I believe the Bible teaches correct morals (mostly)...
(25-09-2017 04:54 PM)wendigo Wrote:  
(25-09-2017 10:43 AM)Targaryen Wrote:  Secular teaching is all well and good, and I don't think I'm saying otherwise. However, since I am a Theist, the best way I can explain it is simply that the subjective world doesn't replace the objective world. Religious belief can really boil down to the subjective. I mean, I can look at a flower objectively and classify it "Flower, this variety" but if I smell it, that smell can bring back memories, which is a subjective experience, unless we all somehow share the same memories. those memories can send you into other memories and if it was say a pleasant experience, you could be seeking to have more experience with that flower, to go back to my rather poor analogy. If you follow my train of thought, a religious belief is pretty much centered on the subjective, a mysterious subjective in fact. Philosophers search for deeper meaning of our lives, of the human experience all the time. For myself, that subjectiveness kept me searching for a deeper sense that there was more then just a very,transitory life that if you're lucky can last 100 years. i don't think subjectiveness can really be explained and it certainly doesn't produce tangible evidence to an observer. But that subjectiveness can lead you on interesting self-journeys.

This guy is my mother-fucking hero. He gets it exactly. Go look up RNA universe. They know shit all about things and they admit it. Go try to get RNA to fold and make a copy of itself. Tell what causes inertia ie why inertia should be. You think you know the answer from high school but you'll see with a bit of impetus.

I have absolutely no idea what you are on about by referring to RNA and inertia.

As far as I can tell, you're both acknowledging that subjective experience exists but haven't yet said what everyone else should draw from that. I understand that Targaryen is saying that he was driven by subjective experience to do ... stuff.

I suppose it's like my first forays into vaping cannabis. For the first time I've learnt how to giggle at comedy and really be moved by music and it's an experience that I would like to explore. It's allowed me to understand other people more. Fuck knows what I would be doing if I could experience orgasms. But is this of any interest to anyone else or in any way relevant to them? After all, it's all subjective isn't it.
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26-09-2017, 08:53 AM
RE: I believe the Bible teaches correct morals (mostly)...
(26-09-2017 04:20 AM)wendigo Wrote:  My point is not that it's too complicated to understand, just that even the greatest minds working tiredlessly for years don't have the answers yet. They might soon, but we don't have enough info at the moment. I've been interested in this and other related topics since I was a kid. I keep myself up to date usually.

(26-09-2017 04:23 AM)wendigo Wrote:  Well you tell us then, how do you get rna to self replicate? Experts the world over in the field have yet to get it to happen in controlled laboratory conditions, let alone spontaneously. They might figure it out soon. I'm able to understand it, I'm just saying there's not enough info to make sweeping generalizations on what "is" and what "isn't" yet.

You know, they might be going about this all the wrong way. There is a fundamental question of whether it was reproduction first or metabolism first. I am firmly in the camp of metabolism-first because this is all part of the process of self organisation which we can see has happened since the very beginning of the Big Bang and continues at every stage.

Once you have the base ingredients for metabolisms to self organise, then reproduction would make perfect sense because it means that entropy can be further increased. And then you have the right ingredients for evolution to start.
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26-09-2017, 08:55 AM
RE: I believe the Bible teaches correct morals (mostly)...
(26-09-2017 06:31 AM)wendigo Wrote:  
(26-09-2017 04:40 AM)morondog Wrote:  Go shove a stick up your arse or something. You know. What you normally do when you're not fucking up a perfectly decent forum.

Would that be the same perfect forum where people with opposing viewpoints are told to shove sticks in their asses? Reminds me of the other poster who wrote, "You can fuck right off. I'm very open minded".
Why do people who can't understand they are communicating poorly and staying arguments in horribly uncritical ways not get it... it's your awful phrasing and arguments that are why you are trashed in posts about your posts. It's your communication that's horrid, not that you have some non status quo idea, discussions about those go on constantly when they can be actually argues for specifically.

Granted, I didn't read every post, still in so many I saw, I saw zero specifics on what you mean by which morals, how it was historically actual Christian/biblical morals, why the bibles morals did form into the modern Christian take, or anything a like displaying a shred of reasoning for your claim. So without it, or an attitude of earnesty, yeah it comes off your point and presence on the thread is ridicule worthy.

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26-09-2017, 10:12 AM
RE: I believe the Bible teaches correct morals (mostly)...
Let's imagine we went through the whole of the bible, and each time we came across some sort of command or moral judgement, we rated it as good or bad. How would this stack up?

Obviously everyone would come to a slightly different conclusion, because of their own personal morality. But I'm guessing most decent people, if they were being honest, would struggle to find 25% of the things in the book being good. I've not tried this, so it could end up a lot worse than this even. Maybe as low as 5-10%.

I'd be highly suspicious of someone who found it over 50% good. I wouldn't want to meet them at night in a dark alleyway.

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26-09-2017, 10:20 AM
RE: I believe the Bible teaches correct morals (mostly)...
(26-09-2017 10:12 AM)Robvalue Wrote:  Let's imagine we went through the whole of the bible, and each time we came across some sort of command or moral judgement, we rated it as good or bad. How would this stack up?

Obviously everyone would come to a slightly different conclusion, because of their own personal morality. But I'm guessing most decent people, if they were being honest, would struggle to find 25% of the things in the book being good. I've not tried this, so it could end up a lot worse than this even. Maybe as low as 5-10%.

I'd be highly suspicious of someone who found it over 50% good. I wouldn't want to meet them at night in a dark alleyway.

Ya but that's only because you are a no good stinking heathen whore, if you had the inspiration of the holy spirit you would know how to properly interpret gods holy word. Wink Tongue
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26-09-2017, 10:25 AM
RE: I believe the Bible teaches correct morals (mostly)...
(22-09-2017 03:24 PM)wendigo Wrote:  
Quote:Yes, a lot of people jumped in and said a bunch of things that rightly pissed you off, and that was rude of them. Still, what you're saying now is not the same as how you opened up in the thread. My first two responses were how the Bible isn't really needed for any of this and the fact that there is a lot of good morality in the Bible is largely incidental and meaningless. As far as I can tell, reading where your posts have been heading, you and I probably agree on a lot in this regard, but you've shifted the goal posts from where this thread started.

It looks like you tried to respond to me, here, but your quote tags were malformed. I'm not sure what you were going to say, because the only text in the post was from my last post.
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26-09-2017, 10:44 AM (This post was last modified: 26-09-2017 11:35 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: I believe the Bible teaches correct morals (mostly)...
(26-09-2017 04:20 AM)wendigo Wrote:  
(25-09-2017 05:29 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  So I did go look it up.

The Immortal Molecule: Scripps Research Scientists Develop First Examples of RNA that Replicates Itself Indefinitely Without Any Help from Biology

And that was over 8 years ago. Scripps is even further along now. Maybe you should start looking shit up.

Like you said, old news. They have yet to get rna to self replicate.

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/busi...story.html

My point is not that it's too complicated to understand, just that even the greatest minds working tiredlessly for years don't have the answers yet. They might soon, but we don't have enough info at the moment. I've been interested in this and other related topics since I was a kid. I keep myself up to date usually.

Actually they do. http://www.microbiologybook.org/mhunt/rna-ho.htm
And they are well on their way to proposing ways that life could have happened.



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