I believe the Bible teaches correct morals (mostly)...
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27-09-2017, 05:37 PM
RE: I believe the Bible teaches correct morals (mostly)...
(27-09-2017 03:50 PM)Dr H Wrote:  American
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27-09-2017, 05:43 PM
RE: I believe the Bible teaches correct morals (mostly)...
(27-09-2017 04:31 PM)wendigo Wrote:  
(27-09-2017 04:06 PM)unfogged Wrote:  The problem is that I don't think it is insignificant. I think the distinction between what the bible teaches and how most xians run their lives is very significant. I wish more xians understood that difference because there would be fewer of them and they wouldn't be giving tacit support to the more rabid ones.

You make a good point, but only assuming that the rabid ones are causing that much harm,

I live in the US and, in my opinion, they are doing a great deal of harm.

Quote:and also we're ignoring that a huge percentage of them on a world scale are the non-rabid ones. Also, why worry about having less of them if most are non-rabid?

Because, as I said, the moderate and liberal xians give tacit support to the others. The fewer believers there are the harder it will be for the ones that take the bible more literally to work their agendas. Religion is a net negative force as far as I can see and I oppose it in all forms. That doesn't mean I go around telling liberal xians that they are wrong every time I see one but I will call out irrational claims when they impact me. I'm also not out trolling xian forums and giving them shit but when they come here I'm going to tell them that what they believe is bullshit unless and until they can provide rational justification.

Quote:I think that gets to the heart of my feeling that a lot of people here have a built in disdain for any christian.

Then you have a warped perspective. There may be a disdain for holding irrational, unsupported beliefs but that is not the same thing. You might also note that this forum is run by and for atheists to have a place to vent and to discuss things without having magic thrown in all the time. In real life people often have to keep quiet to keep their job or their families or their home and here they can freely object to the nonsense.

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27-09-2017, 05:53 PM
RE: I believe the Bible teaches correct morals (mostly)...
(27-09-2017 01:11 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  Moving on to your final point about people in prison converting, people will often say or do anything to be paroled -- yes I'm cynical that way, because if it truly worked they wouldn't end back in prison. Also captive audiences...really does any of this shit need explanation? Most prisons offer perks if you belong to a "churchy group"

Prisons, did someone say prisons? *pokes head back into thread* Knowing that personal experiences don't count for much, I can say, as someone who volunteered with Prison Mass for three years, Moms really hit it on the head here. We had some truly devout guys in there...but we also had a ton of people who were just there to look good and would spend the whole time talking in the back rows. That way when it was time for parole hearings, they could talk about how they were going to Mass and being good little Catholics.

From what I understand, the Evangelicals had far more converts than we did, but we also had a guy go in and do their RCIA during their limited personal time, so our converts were giving up months and months of part of their personal time where what they had to do wasn't dictated by the prison schedule. For the Evangelical side you basically just had to show up and go "I found Jesus!" and keep coming to their services.

You also had to be a "good" prisoner to get to come to Mass. Any violations of the rules could get that 'privilege' taken away from you.

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27-09-2017, 06:09 PM
RE: I believe the Bible teaches correct morals (mostly)...
(27-09-2017 05:53 PM)Shai Hulud Wrote:  
(27-09-2017 01:11 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  Moving on to your final point about people in prison converting, people will often say or do anything to be paroled -- yes I'm cynical that way, because if it truly worked they wouldn't end back in prison. Also captive audiences...really does any of this shit need explanation? Most prisons offer perks if you belong to a "churchy group"

Prisons, did someone say prisons? *pokes head back into thread* Knowing that personal experiences don't count for much, I can say, as someone who volunteered with Prison Mass for three years, Moms really hit it on the head here. We had some truly devout guys in there...but we also had a ton of people who were just there to look good and would spend the whole time talking in the back rows. That way when it was time for parole hearings, they could talk about how they were going to Mass and being good little Catholics.

From what I understand, the Evangelicals had far more converts than we did, but we also had a guy go in and do their RCIA during their limited personal time, so our converts were giving up months and months of part of their personal time where what they had to do wasn't dictated by the prison schedule. For the Evangelical side you basically just had to show up and go "I found Jesus!" and keep coming to their services.

You also had to be a "good" prisoner to get to come to Mass. Any violations of the rules could get that 'privilege' taken away from you.

And as someone who helped run a halfway house for ex-cons who'd converted to Evangelical Christianity, their recidivism rates were pretty high, even though almost none seemed to renounce their Christianity. Content of character has zero to do with religious affiliation (or lack thereof), as far as I can tell.
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27-09-2017, 06:13 PM
RE: I believe the Bible teaches correct morals (mostly)...
(27-09-2017 10:19 AM)wendigo Wrote:  So those core ideas you listed, polygamy, rape, incest...that's what you think Christians take away with them when they come walking out of church on Sunday?
That would depend on whether they're learning about the whole Bible in church or not. Catholics don't. They've never used more than certain carefully selected passages, that are reprinted for the congregation in the Missals.

Quote: Consider this: what would I have to say or do in this thread now, to "win you over"?
Speaking only for myself, you don't have to win me over. But if you want to convince me that you want a serious discussion, and aren't just trolling madly, well ... some cogent elaboration on the "biological/evolutional and physical sense" you find in the Bible would be a real good place to start.

I'm all ears. Or eyes, as the case may be.

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Dr H

"So, I became an anarchist, and all I got was this lousy T-shirt."
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27-09-2017, 06:14 PM
RE: I believe the Bible teaches correct morals (mostly)...
We need RocketSurgeon76 to put in an appearance.

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27-09-2017, 06:29 PM
RE: I believe the Bible teaches correct morals (mostly)...
(27-09-2017 11:14 AM)wendigo Wrote:  It's the Christians that get the bulk of the hatred from atheists in he USA though, presumably because of fundamentalists like Westboro Baptist or whatever.
No, it's because religious culture in the USA is predominately Christian, so if an atheist -- or anyone else -- sees someone being oppressed or abused based on particle religio-cultural tenets, the tenets involved are far more likely to be Christian than anything else. People react the most to what they see and experience the most. If most of the religious culture in the US were driven by worshipers of Cthulhu, then you would see people with an axe to grind about the dominant religious culture disparaging Cthuluostrians far more than Christians.

And "hatred" is a pretty strong word, which you use quite freely, and without much discrimination. Indeed, you seem to be painting US atheists with the same broad brush you accuse them (without much justification that I've seen, yet) of painting Christians with.

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27-09-2017, 06:30 PM
RE: I believe the Bible teaches correct morals (mostly)...
(27-09-2017 11:17 AM)Anjele Wrote:  Adieu, adieu, adieu...

Did it work?

Only works if he clicks the heels of his ruby slippers together while saying it.

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27-09-2017, 06:54 PM
RE: I believe the Bible teaches correct morals (mostly)...
(27-09-2017 06:09 PM)julep Wrote:  And as someone who helped run a halfway house for ex-cons who'd converted to Evangelical Christianity, their recidivism rates were pretty high, even though almost none seemed to renounce their Christianity. Content of character has zero to do with religious affiliation (or lack thereof), as far as I can tell.

Totally agreed. One of our embezzlers was former clergy.

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27-09-2017, 06:54 PM
RE: I believe the Bible teaches correct morals (mostly)...
(27-09-2017 06:09 PM)julep Wrote:  Content of character has zero to do with religious affiliation (or lack thereof), as far as I can tell.

Inverse correlation from my observation.

#sigh
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