I believe the Bible teaches correct morals (mostly)...
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27-09-2017, 08:36 PM
RE: I believe the Bible teaches correct morals (mostly)...
(27-09-2017 04:59 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Consider 5 guests
Are we in Apologetics class at Biola ? Weeping

You noticed that too huh?

A question for you wendingo.

Do Christians need the Bible to do good or could they do good without the Bible?
I suspect the latter but if it’s the former that is frightening.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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27-09-2017, 08:47 PM
RE: I believe the Bible teaches correct morals (mostly)...
(27-09-2017 08:36 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  
(27-09-2017 04:59 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Consider 5 guests
Are we in Apologetics class at Biola ? Weeping

You noticed that too huh?

A question for you wendingo.

Do Christians need the Bible to do good or could they do good without the Bible?
I suspect the latter but if it’s the former that is frightening.

The ones that scare me are the ones that claim that without it they would feel free to commit any evil.

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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27-09-2017, 09:04 PM (This post was last modified: 28-09-2017 07:03 AM by Full Circle.)
RE: I believe the Bible teaches correct morals (mostly)...
(27-09-2017 08:47 PM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  
(27-09-2017 08:36 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  You noticed that too huh?

A question for you wendingo.

Do Christians need the Bible to do good or could they do good without the Bible?
I suspect the latter but if it’s the former that is frightening.

The ones that scare me are the ones that claim that without it they would feel free to commit any evil.

Yup. Had that very discussion once with a co-worker over lunch when she found out I was atheist. She asked what kept me from raping and pillaging and I turned it around and asked her if her fear of god was the only reason she didn’t.

End of convo.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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27-09-2017, 09:59 PM
RE: I believe the Bible teaches correct morals (mostly)...
(27-09-2017 05:43 PM)unfogged Wrote:  
(27-09-2017 04:31 PM)wendigo Wrote:  You make a good point, but only assuming that the rabid ones are causing that much harm,

I live in the US and, in my opinion, they are doing a great deal of harm.
Good grief, we are living in the Trumpocalypse. In what universe are the "rabid ones" "not causing THAT much harm"? We're flirting with nuclear war and the ruination of healthcare for dog's sake.

I realize this isn't 100% fundamentalist Christianity, there are other forces at work. But I lay a LOT of that at their feet. The GOP* has been in an unholy alliance with fundamentalism since the 1980s. It's done a SHIT TON of harm.

* God's Own Party
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27-09-2017, 10:24 PM
RE: I believe the Bible teaches correct morals (mostly)...
(27-09-2017 04:54 PM)wendigo Wrote:  We were saying that the bible has some good points, and that the christians mostly ignore the bad and take the good...

Not really. Christian morality is a product of their society, same as anybody else. That's why, with the exception of some extreme examples, their morality is indistinguishable from everybody else. They just give the Bible credit. In fact, many of them don't even do that, having noticed that some of us Godless Heathens have morals too.

A quick look through history shows you just how relative their vaunted "absolute" morality is. IRA, slavery, witch trials, Inquistion, Cathars, Constantinople good-bye! We didn't start the fire... And good moral Christians on both sides of every one of those tragedies and more.

A thorough examination of the Bible shows just how little morality it really contains.

Thou Shalt Not Kill.

One of the big, simple, easy bits of morality, no? Sorry, no. One of the central problems with religion is that it reinforces our nasty predisposition for tribalism. Great for the in-group but lousy for the out-group. So the subtext on that reads "Thou Shalt Not Kill Other Believers." That's why the rest of the OT reads like a laundry list of every tribe that the Israelites proceeded to massacre. Just ask the Midianites how well that Biblical morality worked out for them.

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27-09-2017, 10:45 PM
RE: I believe the Bible teaches correct morals (mostly)...
(27-09-2017 10:24 PM)Paleophyte Wrote:  
(27-09-2017 04:54 PM)wendigo Wrote:  We were saying that the bible has some good points, and that the christians mostly ignore the bad and take the good...

Not really. Christian morality is a product of their society, same as anybody else. That's why, with the exception of some extreme examples, their morality is indistinguishable from everybody else. They just give the Bible credit. In fact, many of them don't even do that, having noticed that some of us Godless Heathens have morals too.
Exactly. I've always said that "biblical" or any other religious morality cannot differ much from the only morality that actually exists -- societal morality -- or it would be ... wait for it ... IMMORAL.

That's why fundamentalists used to carry on in the 1920s and 1930s about the evils of listening to radio or going to the movies and of skirts less than ankle length and now they are ON the radio and MAKING movies and for the most part showing as much leg as godless women do.

Christians used to be slave-owners in this country and had Biblical justifications for it. They can't hold those beliefs anymore without going to jail, so they don't. Today's Christians would be horrified at the notion of slavery, because that is how society now conditions its children from the cradle.

Christian morality is always a discrete two or three generations behind in evolving and adapting to changing mores. This allows them to claim that they stand for timeless, immutable Truths and Principles. They change slowly, and always late. But change they do. Because they inherently have no choice.
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28-09-2017, 04:57 AM (This post was last modified: 28-09-2017 05:02 AM by wendigo.)
RE: I believe the Bible teaches correct morals (mostly)...
(27-09-2017 08:36 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  
(27-09-2017 04:59 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Consider 5 guests
Are we in Apologetics class at Biola ? Weeping

You noticed that too huh?

A question for you wendingo.

Do Christians need the Bible to do good or could they do good without the Bible?
I suspect the latter but if it’s the former that is frightening.

They could of course do good without the book, like atheists. That's not what they are doing though. That's not the reality of our world.
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28-09-2017, 05:00 AM
RE: I believe the Bible teaches correct morals (mostly)...
(28-09-2017 04:57 AM)wendigo Wrote:  
(27-09-2017 08:36 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  You noticed that too huh?

A question for you wendingo.

Do Christians need the Bible to do good or could they do good without the Bible?
I suspect the latter but if it’s the former that is frightening.

They could of course do good without it, like atheists. That's not what they are doing though. That's not the reality of our world.

They credit the bible, but that doesn't mean it is the actual source. It may be Dumbo's feather.

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28-09-2017, 05:41 AM
RE: I believe the Bible teaches correct morals (mostly)...
(28-09-2017 04:57 AM)wendigo Wrote:  They could of course do good without the book, like atheists. That's not what they are doing though. That's not the reality of our world.


Every Christian that...


...does not stone a woman to death for not being a virgin on her wedding night...

...does not kill someone for wearing garments made of more than one fiber...

...does not stone someone to death for working on the Sabbath...

...does not see homosexuals as subhumans worthy of justifiable killing in god's name...

...does not rely upon prayer alone to make their world a better place...


...belies just how vacuous your rationalizations are. They are doing good, by either ignoring or actively circumventing their 'holy scripture'. Drinking Beverage

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28-09-2017, 05:57 AM
RE: I believe the Bible teaches correct morals (mostly)...
(27-09-2017 09:46 AM)wendigo Wrote:  
(27-09-2017 08:53 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  [Citation needed]

I see no basis for that claim. The best I can see is that you're pulling a No True Scotsman, just declaring American fundamentalist Christians to not be true Christians.

I'm basing that on they way people here have reacted, saying that christians in america try to shove their philosophy down other´s throats. Since that's not how it is everywhere, one can conclude that christians in america (at least a large part of them, according to thinking atheist) are fundamentalists. The only times I've gone off topic is when someone has dragged things off topic with ad hominem attacks and outright insults.

I can't tell if you're saying that American Christian fundamentalists are really atheists, if you're saying that American atheists misidentify most Christians as fundamentalist, or something else entirely.

I'm honestly having a hard time following where you're going with your thread, because you seem to change subjects a lot. I'm sure it's been annoying having a bunch of people here assume you're a Christian because of the way you worded your thread title and OP. Still, you might get a better discussion if you abandon this thread and start a new one. Stake out a more cognizant claim and stick to it. I wasn't one of the people accusing you of being a Christian who's misrepresenting atheism, and I still had a hard time keeping track of everything.
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