I believe the Bible teaches correct morals (mostly)...
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28-09-2017, 12:48 PM
RE: I believe the Bible teaches correct morals (mostly)...
(28-09-2017 12:40 PM)JAH Wrote:  I have to ask why is this still going on. Kill wendigo, or if that is not morally acceptable, ignore his slimy ass.

OK some of you are having fun with this, I accept that. But the OP has by now been thoroughly discredited why go on. Let wendigo play whatever word games they want and simply ignore.

I have to ask, who do you think you are telling people what to do and how to act?

OK you may think you are some sort of moral authority but I do *not* accept that. Let people do whatever they want and simply get off your high horse Drinking Beverage

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderò."
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28-09-2017, 12:51 PM
I believe the Bible teaches correct morals (mostly)...
So you think their faith and picked out lessons from the Bible does have a moral impact?

Then are they more impacted morally by those raised without a faith or at least never given bible lessons on life? Are these people somehow different?

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"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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28-09-2017, 12:53 PM
RE: I believe the Bible teaches correct morals (mostly)...
All nothing but unsupported opinion.

The idea of a god is incoherent. It needs no denial. It is dismissed as undefined incoherent nonsense. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignosticism

Ehrman said in one of his books that if the people in the pews knew what they were teaching about the Bible in the mainline universities, they would be shocked. He went on to say, that if the clergy actually taught what they had learned, they would get fired. Most people know what they know from sermons and homilies, not actual reading or study.

There is no evidence that people "get their morals from the Bible".

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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28-09-2017, 01:06 PM
RE: I believe the Bible teaches correct morals (mostly)...
Vera, I made no order I made a suggestion. In all my work life I only once directly ordered a co-worker to do something. It was, if you need to know, go home and no he was not drunk.

I will now take my own advise and not participate in this thread.
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28-09-2017, 01:16 PM
RE: I believe the Bible teaches correct morals (mostly)...
(28-09-2017 12:46 PM)wendigo Wrote:  I don't know the same christians you guys know I guess.

I know a lot of Christians, and most are very nice. However, I don't agree with you that they're nice because they're Christians. They're nice because they're people, and most people are nice.
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28-09-2017, 01:18 PM
RE: I believe the Bible teaches correct morals (mostly)...
(28-09-2017 01:06 PM)JAH Wrote:  Vera, I made no order I made a suggestion. In all my work life I only once directly ordered a co-worker to do something. It was, if you need to know, go home and no he was not drunk.

I will now take my own advise and not participate in this thread.

Not the first time you've made a "suggestion" about how others should act. The moral brigade is becoming too big for a small forum like this one Drinking Beverage

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderò."
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28-09-2017, 01:20 PM
RE: I believe the Bible teaches correct morals (mostly)...
(28-09-2017 12:46 PM)wendigo Wrote:  A major mistake made by (not you) some people here is to assume that christians have either not read the bible, or they follow it blindly and believe it to be literal in every way. I give them a bit more credit. They know the bible is mostly full of shit, but they believe in God. They mostly take the good lessons and leave the bad (cherry picking) because they are not stupid; they know that the text was written by men, not God, and was written in a simpler time by people who had no idea how to explain things.

I’d love to give you a pass but I just can’t. Now you are generalizing about billions of people, assuming you know what they take literally and what they don’t or if they really think the Bible is full of shit, or to what extent they cherry pick, or even if they “know” that the text was written by men, not God.

The most honest thing you can say is, “Of the Christians I personally know fill in the blank”. Huge difference.

I’m not sure how you decided to become the standard bearer for 33,000 denominations and 2.2 billion people. Huh

I think you’d be much better off here if you stuck to what you can actually know as opposed to pretending to know what you can’t possibly know. As long as you don’t people will continue to rip into your allegations of omniscience. There, my one piece of constructive criticism wendingo, take it or leave it.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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28-09-2017, 01:46 PM
RE: I believe the Bible teaches correct morals (mostly)...
(28-09-2017 12:46 PM)wendigo Wrote:  A major mistake made by (not you) some people here is to assume that christians have either not read the bible, or they follow it blindly and believe it to be literal in every way. I give them a bit more credit. They know the bible is mostly full of shit, but they believe in God.
As a fundamentalist I lived under a very potent taboo such that I was not able to regard the Bible as "mostly full of shit". I may have realized this at some level I suppose but I durst not look at it.

And of course as soon as I did, my faith disappeared in a puff of logic.

But until then, no. In my case I did "read my Bible" as well as study it and practically venerate it. However, taboos were in place there, too. I was only able to "see" in the Bible what my particular dogma / systematic theology saw. I am not sure it matters all that much, how much of the Bible people actually read, it's more what they actually comprehend independent of "reasoning" borrowed from others.

In the days when most people were illiterate and the printing press not yet invented, such that access to copies of scripture (typically in Latin) was reserved for a privileged few, the sentiment seemed to be that putting the Bible in the common language and in the hands of common men would cause ecclesiastical authorities to lose control and autonomy. That was true to a point, but they have been remarkably successful in framing how people read and interpret scripture so that they still are pretty effective puppet-masters.
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28-09-2017, 01:48 PM
RE: I believe the Bible teaches correct morals (mostly)...
(28-09-2017 12:46 PM)wendigo Wrote:  A major mistake made by... some people here is to assume that christians have either not read the bible, or they follow it blindly and believe it to be literal in every way.

It's not a "mistake"; it's acknowledged even by the Christian hierarchy to be so —Majority of British Christians do not read the Bible.

In a survey held among 8,150 British adults by ComRes in March 2017, 51% of the respondents identified as Christian...

Of the respondents in the survey, 14% said they were an "active Christian" and 28% admitted to be a "follower of Jesus." However, 55% confessed that they "never" read or listen to the Bible, while 14% said they did at least once a week. In addition, 29% of the subjects revealed that they never prayed, 34% said they prayed at least once a week, and only 18% said they prayed every day.

Quote:They know the bible is mostly full of shit, but they believe in God.

Now you're shifting the goal posts again! You started off by claiming that the Bible posits a lot of "mostly" good moral and ethical values that could, or should, be followed universally by everyone; "I feel that to deny the obvious core ideas at the heart of the bible is folly, not because a God commands it, but because it makes moral, biological, evolutionary and physical sense".

But now you're saying that (allegedly) Christians "know the Bible is mostly full of shit". You can't have it both ways mate. And what does their "belief" in God have to do with your argument? We're discussing the merits of the written word of the Bible as it stands—not the existence or otherwise of any supernatural entity. That's a totally different debate.

Quote:This however is not going to shake their belief in a supreme being (something that none of us can confirm or deny), so they make the best of it...

As a lifelong atheist, I for one can certainly confirm unequivocally that the purported Christian god does not exist. In precisely the same way that I know that leprechauns, unicorns, and angels don't exist. Simple deductive reasoning.

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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28-09-2017, 02:54 PM
RE: I believe the Bible teaches correct morals (mostly)...
(27-09-2017 04:14 PM)wendigo Wrote:  I just said that the most important ones (read "the one most people live by who are christian") overlap with evolution and our inborn instincts"...

Can you tell us what parts of Biblical scripture "overlap" with scientific theories? The Bible states that the earth is flat, the sun was created after the earth, bats are birds, rabbits chew their cuds, insects walk on all fours, there were once giants on the earth, Pi is equal to 3, the moon emits its own light, donkeys and serpents could talk, unicorns existed, whales are fish, stars are tiny objects in the sky that can fall down, Adam lived for 930 years and Methuselah 969, the mustard seed is the smallest seed... etc. All total bullshit—as is all the Bible's so-called "science".

(I'm assuming by overlap you mean "to coincide in part with, or have in common with".)
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