I believe the Bible teaches correct morals (mostly)...
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01-10-2017, 11:59 AM
RE: I believe the Bible teaches correct morals (mostly)...
La la la la la, banhammers coming. Rolleyes
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01-10-2017, 11:59 AM (This post was last modified: 01-10-2017 12:03 PM by Cheerful Charlie.)
RE: I believe the Bible teaches correct morals (mostly)...
(01-10-2017 10:58 AM)unfogged Wrote:  
(01-10-2017 10:54 AM)wendigo Wrote:  Where did christianiy take hold in the world? And which parts of the world are the most highly advanced in science, or the most powerful?

Please demonstrate the link from Christianity to advanced science.

I'll wait.

Islamic nations were more advanced than Christian societies until Islamic theologians brought the philosophers and scientists to heel. But it was translations of these Islamic thinkers that sparked an interest in science in the West. Many of these middle age writings remained authoritative in the West until the 1800s.

Chemistry was an offshoot of alchemy. Early Western lens makers invented reading glasses, and eventually telescopes and microscopes. Which accelerate optics markedly, and in turn advanced science. The microscope opened up a whole new world of discoveries. Nothing much about Christianity here.

Carl Linnaeus, who invented the binomial naming system for biology, was directly responsible for sending hordes of naturalists out to explore the world and report back their findings.

Geology began when people like Hutton and Lyell starting carefully observing the features of rocks and their sources. Overthrowing religious dogmas of a Biblical 6,000 year old earth.

Religion had little to do with any of this, Except meddling incompetently from time to time.

By the time of Rene Descartes, the intellectuals of the West had adopted the idea of a mechanistic natural world. The big problem how do souls interact with the mechanical Universe came to a dead end and so by the 18th century, religion was emphatically out of the science business. Science was natural philosophy. Methodological naturalism became the basis of natural philosophy, later called science. A rank atheist and the most orthodox Catholic scientists did their science in the same way.

Religion had little to do with it, and after Descartes (and others) failure to account for the souls, The last vestiges of religion were philosophically purged from science, because that turned out to be an exercise in futility. And this point cannot be emphasized enough. Methodological naturalism is the basic foundation of Western science. Not because scientists are mean old atheists. But because trying to force religion into science was such a resounding failure. And not for lack of attempts to do so from some of the sharpest thinkers in the West. Science in the end, is pragmatic. What works is retained and used. What does not is purged. Religious dogmas, occultism, pseudoscience.

People who claim Christianity had a lot to do with the rise of science in the West, know little about the subject.

And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter
- Thomas Jefferson

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01-10-2017, 12:00 PM
RE: I believe the Bible teaches correct morals (mostly)...
(01-10-2017 11:45 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  
(01-10-2017 08:59 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  In '30, '40 and '50 people in USSR believed that marxism-leninism was something from which everything good came forth. Seems you're sharing their delusion, though you attribute discoveries to other ideology/religion.

Szuchow, please help me out again.

Who launched the first rocket into space? Was it a country under christian rule?

It were Germans or if you discount this story then it were Americans

Quote:Who launched the first living thing into Orbit? Was it a country under christian rule?

While most famous Laika may not had been first.

Quote:Who launched the first human into Orbit? Was it a country under christian rule?

That would be USSR.

Quote:Who would probably put the first man on the moon if the chief scientist hadnt suddenly and unecpectedly died during heart surgery? A country under christian rule?

I suspect Soviets.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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01-10-2017, 12:12 PM
RE: I believe the Bible teaches correct morals (mostly)...
(01-10-2017 11:40 AM)wendigo Wrote:  Who said I never heard that? Everybody knows that, jack ass. I was referring to the virtual entirety of the west, which I think everyone here but you surely must realize. the chinese[sic] are communists who pullute[sic] the planet and trample human rights. The japanese[sic] are fine now, but who had to thump their asses back into shape....the west!

The Chinese are hardly alone in polluting the world or violating human rights, indeed the many post-industrial nations of the First World have a centuries head start on the pollution part. But who cares about their communism? How is that at all relevant here? Seems like you have an very specific axe to grind there.

Japan is a great example that torpedoes your very argument. Yes, Japan has a great fondness of Western culture, largely stemming from American post-war reconstruction efforts. Quick aside, but what does the Bible say about the ethics of deploying nuclear weapons during war? That aside, Japan is a modern, technologically advanced, secular nation; sans Christianity. The Bible is simply not needed to explain the success of Japan. Much like it wasn't needed to explain the success of Carthage, Babylonia, or the Ottomans.

The more you write, the more it becomes evident just how utterly myopic your tenuous understanding of history (and just about everything else) really is.

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01-10-2017, 12:14 PM
RE: I believe the Bible teaches correct morals (mostly)...
(01-10-2017 11:40 AM)wendigo Wrote:  
(01-10-2017 11:28 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Actually China and Japan were FAR FAR more advanced than the West, and earlier. When Europe was taking 2 baths in a lifetime, they were known for their cleanliness and advanced societies. You are just SO totally ignorant that you never heard that.

http://www.pbs.org/story-china/about-the.../overview/

Who said I never heard that? Everybody knows that, jack ass. I was referring to the virtual entirety of the west, which I think everyone here but you surely must realize. the chinese are communists who pullute the planet and trample human rights. The japanese are fine now, but who had to thump their asses back into shape....the west!

Now all you have to do, is prove one had anything to do with the other. Jerk.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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01-10-2017, 12:16 PM
RE: I believe the Bible teaches correct morals (mostly)...
(01-10-2017 11:40 AM)wendigo Wrote:  The japanese are fine now, but who had to thump their asses back into shape....the west!

They arent "fine", they are "conform", but still struggling with the stretch between their traditional culture and the western one they had to adopt.

The japanese were doing just fine and extremely happy in their self chosen isolation (by the Tokugawa shogunate)....until "western" Commodore Perry arrived to force them to trade with the "west".
It was this forced opening of Japan to the west and its culture and influence which this society couldnt properly deal with. It was western imperialism that taught Japan that it had to be a major power in the pacific.

Perrys flag was on board the USS Missouri, just to remind them, how "tactful" of the "west".

After, what...60 pages? of this insanity with ever increasing dishonesty and absurd claims you dont bother to back up and countless of your diversions, i see myself finally forced to neg rep you.

Yet, i still doubt you are a theist...however, my doubts are dwindling.

Ceterum censeo, religionem delendam esse
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01-10-2017, 12:17 PM (This post was last modified: 01-10-2017 12:29 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: I believe the Bible teaches correct morals (mostly)...
(01-10-2017 11:40 AM)wendigo Wrote:  Who said I never heard that? Everybody knows that, jack ass. I was referring to the virtual entirety of the west, which I think everyone here but you surely must realize. the chinese are communists who pullute the planet and trample human rights. The japanese are fine now, but who had to thump their asses back into shape....the west!

Except you, obviously.
You NEVER said that. Now you equivocate and change the goal posts.
All you have to do now, is prove one (power and knowledge in science) had anything to do with the other. In fact the Church opposed science for centuries. Christianity is about a "suffering servant", not about "power and progress"... so, I guess.... no.
Fail again, ignoramus.
Jerk.

BTW, ignoramus, it's "pollute", not "pullute". Laugh out load


Northern European (atheist) countries have as good or better health outcomes as the US today. There goes your idiot theory.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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01-10-2017, 12:23 PM
RE: I believe the Bible teaches correct morals (mostly)...
(01-10-2017 12:16 PM)Deesse23 Wrote:  
(01-10-2017 11:40 AM)wendigo Wrote:  The japanese are fine now, but who had to thump their asses back into shape....the west!

They arent "fine", they are "conform", but still struggling with the stretch between their traditional culture and the western one they had to adopt.

The japanese were doing just fine and extremely happy in their self chosen isolation (by the Tokugawa shogunate)....until "western" Commodore Perry arrived to force them to trade with the "west".
It was this forced opening of Japan to the west and its culture and influence which this society couldnt properly deal with. It was western imperialism that taught Japan that it had to be a major power in the pacific.

Perrys flag was on board the USS Missouri, just to remind them, how "tactful" of the "west".

After, what...60 pages? of this insanity with ever increasing dishonesty and absurd claims you dont bother to back up and countless of your diversions, i see myself finally forced to neg rep you.

Yet, i still doubt you are a theist...however, my doubts are dwindling.

I was finally compelled to neg rep him too. I now have few doubts we are dealing with a theist or a very poor troll.
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01-10-2017, 12:33 PM (This post was last modified: 01-10-2017 12:47 PM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: I believe the Bible teaches correct morals (mostly)...
(01-10-2017 11:52 AM)wendigo Wrote:  Check my ip all you like, I am who I say I am. I stand by every statement I've made here as I dont[sic] fear the likes of you.

Who said you should fear us? Nobody is going to track you down and spank you just because you've been a very naughty (and stupid) little boy on an internet forum.


(01-10-2017 11:52 AM)wendigo Wrote:  So far I've said basically the following things over and over:

Uh-huh.


(01-10-2017 11:52 AM)wendigo Wrote:  -Christians are trying to do good and represent the solid morals that they get from the bible/pastors. That means yes they ignore the bad parts and it's irrelevant if they need the book in the first place because this is the reality of it.

A gross oversimplification of the situation, and almost so inane as to be not even wrong.

First off, what is considered good is subjective. One Christian parent can unreservedly love their gay child, while another Christian parent can disown them; and both can cite the Bible and the teaching of their pastor/church to justify that belief, that they are doing good by their actions. Thus the Bible is completely irrelevant, it utterly fails as a moral guide. Since it is so irrelevant, it deserves no deference or respect.

A book that can be used to defend two diametrically opposed opinions, ultimately, supports neither.


(01-10-2017 11:52 AM)wendigo Wrote:  -the western world is founded on christianity,[sic] though since the enlightenment it's not real christian rule but that does nothing to change the beneficial effect it's had on our moral and socio political and scientific development.

Such development is far more often than not at the expense of, or in defiance of, the Bible and the religious institutions built upon it. The Roman Catholic Church still thinks that sperm are a life to be protected. The largest opposition to women's rights, such as access to adequate medical treatment and control over their own bodies, is expressly Christian. The largest opponents of research into human cloning are also expressly Christian, and oppose it from a religious standpoint. The push to remove the teaching of evolution in schools and replace it with creationism is, once again, expressly Christian.

Simply put, Christianity is at it's best (which is to say, least harmful), whenever it shuts up and stays out of the way of progress. You'll have to forgive us for not breaking out the champagne and participation trophies for all the times Christianity simply failed to fuck something up.


(01-10-2017 11:52 AM)wendigo Wrote:  -you're all a bunch of abject cringey[sic] basement experts who need a bitch slap at least twice per day.

Aw, in a foul mood because your mother made you clean up your room today?

The lady doth protest too much, methinks!


(01-10-2017 11:52 AM)wendigo Wrote:  You may be of differing opinion, but outside of this shithole forum, the majority of real atheists take a more moderate, inclusive approach than most of you do.

Inclusive? Is that what you call insulting an entire forum, just because they disagree with your empty (and demonstrably wrong or short-sighted) assertions? Laugh out load

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01-10-2017, 12:49 PM
RE: I believe the Bible teaches correct morals (mostly)...
(01-10-2017 11:45 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  
(01-10-2017 08:59 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  In '30, '40 and '50 people in USSR believed that marxism-leninism was something from which everything good came forth. Seems you're sharing their delusion, though you attribute discoveries to other ideology/religion.

Szuchow, please help me out again.

Who launched the first rocket into space? Was it a country under christian rule?
Who launched the first living thing into Orbit? Was it a country under christian rule?
Who launched the first human into Orbit? Was it a country under christian rule?
Who would probably put the first man on the moon if the chief scientist hadnt suddenly and unecpectedly died during heart surgery? A country under christian rule?

The answer to all four of your questions is yes. Russia has an at least 50% christian pedigree, the vast majority of which are Orthodox. When I say christian rule, do you actually picture armed bishops and the pope leading an army of the holy, you stupid ass-clown? Of course no christian "party" is ruling the country's military and government directly. Holy fuck are you seriously so stupid you need this explained to you? Russia is a Christian country. Rolleyes

You guys love to throw the name Gallileo around...why not Newton? You know, the guy who revolutionized math and physics arguably more than any other figure. He hailed from Cambridge University, specifically "Trinity" College. A peron could go on all day about religious institutions that have spawned all the leading scientists of our time and the time before us, but no, Christianity has no appreciable positive effect on our society. Rolleyes
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