I bet nobody on this website can answer this question. No. 2
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10-01-2014, 09:12 AM
RE: I bet nobody on this website can answer this question. No. 2
I think I've got a brain aneurysm now...... Blink
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11-01-2014, 04:52 PM
RE: I bet nobody on this website can answer this question. No. 2
(10-01-2014 09:08 AM)Vosur Wrote:  
(10-01-2014 08:20 AM)Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver Wrote:  Lift, however, can be roughly modeled using the basic equation. Flift = 1/2*c*p*A*V^2
*Lift

(10-01-2014 08:20 AM)Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver Wrote:  A is the planform area of the wing
*platform

(10-01-2014 08:20 AM)Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver Wrote:  V is the velocity of the air passiing over the surface
*passing

(10-01-2014 08:20 AM)Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver Wrote:  In adition we cannot take into effect the variable camber nature of a birds wings, the vectoring of its thrust in the form of flapping its wings, etc.
*addition

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The bottom two are fuckups from typing it in on a smartphone, but the first two are correct.

Flift is a variable for the force of lift. It should be underscored but not easy to do on this forum engine. Planform area is the wing surface area when viewed in plan view.

"IN THRUST WE TRUST"

"We were conservative Jews and that meant we obeyed God's Commandments until His rules became a royal pain in the ass."

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11-01-2014, 04:54 PM
RE: I bet nobody on this website can answer this question. No. 2
(10-01-2014 09:01 AM)LadyJane Wrote:  I have a question.

How many fingers am I holding up?

Between 0 and 8, unless your're polydactyl. Thumbs are not included as fingers.

"IN THRUST WE TRUST"

"We were conservative Jews and that meant we obeyed God's Commandments until His rules became a royal pain in the ass."

- Joel Chastnoff, The 188th Crybaby Brigade
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11-01-2014, 05:53 PM
RE: I bet nobody on this website can answer this question. No. 2
(11-01-2014 04:52 PM)Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver Wrote:  The bottom two are fuckups from typing it in on a smartphone, but the first two are correct.

Flift is a variable for the force of lift. It should be underscored but not easy to do on this forum engine. Planform area is the wing surface area when viewed in plan view.
I stand corrected, but least both of us were only 50% correct. Tongue

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11-01-2014, 10:37 PM
RE: I bet nobody on this website can answer this question. No. 2
(10-01-2014 08:20 AM)Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver Wrote:  Fuuny.

But the question is illogical.

There is no such thing as 'airspeed velocity'; its nonsensical.

Swallows, like any other flying creature use airfoils to generate lift as well as gain it from the change in momentum of the air from the downwash when they flap their wings.

Airfoils don't have an 'airspeed velocity' associated with them.

Lift, however, can be roughly modeled using the basic equation. Flift = 1/2*c*p*A*V^2
where c is the coefficient of lift associated with that airfoil, at a particular angle of attack, Mach number and Reynolds number.
p is the air (or fluid) density
A is the planform area of the wing
V is the velocity of the air passiing over the surface

In adition we cannot take into effect the variable camber nature of a birds wings, the vectoring of its thrust in the form of flapping its wings, etc. This makes it very difficult to determine the angle of attack (AoA) that the swallow's wings stall at. This is the critical AoA which would allow us to calculate the stall speed Vs of a swallow's wings. This would be the minimum airspeed that an unladen swallow, African or otherwise, would need to obtain in order to fly.

Given this, there are just too many variables to make an accurate calculation using basic aerodynamics, but this guy does a pretty good job at finding a realistic estimate for a swallow in flight in dynamic equilibrium.

I object! What if flying creature was flying in an atmosphere largely comprised of other gasses? Also, where did you take varying gravitational forces into account? Angry

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11-01-2014, 11:21 PM (This post was last modified: 11-01-2014 11:24 PM by Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver.)
RE: I bet nobody on this website can answer this question. No. 2
(11-01-2014 10:37 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  
(10-01-2014 08:20 AM)Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver Wrote:  Fuuny.

But the question is illogical.

There is no such thing as 'airspeed velocity'; its nonsensical.

Swallows, like any other flying creature use airfoils to generate lift as well as gain it from the change in momentum of the air from the downwash when they flap their wings.

Airfoils don't have an 'airspeed velocity' associated with them.

Lift, however, can be roughly modeled using the basic equation. Flift = 1/2*c*p*A*V^2
where c is the coefficient of lift associated with that airfoil, at a particular angle of attack, Mach number and Reynolds number.
p is the air (or fluid) density
A is the planform area of the wing
V is the velocity of the air passiing over the surface

In adition we cannot take into effect the variable camber nature of a birds wings, the vectoring of its thrust in the form of flapping its wings, etc. This makes it very difficult to determine the angle of attack (AoA) that the swallow's wings stall at. This is the critical AoA which would allow us to calculate the stall speed Vs of a swallow's wings. This would be the minimum airspeed that an unladen swallow, African or otherwise, would need to obtain in order to fly.

Given this, there are just too many variables to make an accurate calculation using basic aerodynamics, but this guy does a pretty good job at finding a realistic estimate for a swallow in flight in dynamic equilibrium.

I object! What if flying creature was flying in an atmosphere largely comprised of other gasses? Also, where did you take varying gravitational forces into account? Angry

That basic equation stands regardless. You will have to simply change the density, AoA, Mach and Reynolds Numbers in order to calculate lift correctly for a given fluid passing over the airfoil.

As for gravity, since the bird is assumed to be in straight and level flight Flift = Fg.

"IN THRUST WE TRUST"

"We were conservative Jews and that meant we obeyed God's Commandments until His rules became a royal pain in the ass."

- Joel Chastnoff, The 188th Crybaby Brigade
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12-01-2014, 04:51 AM
RE: I bet nobody on this website can answer this question. No. 2
Ha! You took me all to serious!

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