I can do it
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04-01-2015, 07:08 AM
RE: I can do it
(03-01-2015 01:26 PM)Anjele Wrote:  Apparently Ed is quite impressed with the ability to reproduce.

Had my first at 20, my last at nearly 30. Three grandkids. It's biology, not an accomplishment. Dodgy

Right, it's not an accomplishment. But if atheism is true, then it's all we were "meant" to do, as evidenced by our biology.
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04-01-2015, 07:09 AM
RE: I can do it
^It's what we're built to do. It's entirely possible to choose to do otherwise.

Soulless mutants of muscle and intent. There are billions of us; hardy, smart and dangerous. Shaped by millions of years of death. We are the definitive alpha predator. We build monsters of fire and stone. We bottled the sun. We nailed our god to a stick.

In man's struggle against the world, bet on the man.
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04-01-2015, 07:11 AM
RE: I can do it
(04-01-2015 07:08 AM)Gordon Wrote:  
(03-01-2015 01:26 PM)Anjele Wrote:  Apparently Ed is quite impressed with the ability to reproduce.

Had my first at 20, my last at nearly 30. Three grandkids. It's biology, not an accomplishment. Dodgy

Right, it's not an accomplishment. But if atheism is true, then it's all we were "meant" to do, as evidenced by our biology.

All we are meant to do is reproduce? How do you arrive at that conclusion?

Atheism is true - some people don't believe in gods. That makes it true.

Sheesh Egordon.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF

We're all mad here. The Cheshire Cat
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04-01-2015, 07:15 AM
RE: I can do it
(04-01-2015 07:11 AM)Anjele Wrote:  
(04-01-2015 07:08 AM)Gordon Wrote:  Right, it's not an accomplishment. But if atheism is true, then it's all we were "meant" to do, as evidenced by our biology.

All we are meant to do is reproduce? How do you arrive at that conclusion?

Atheism is true - some people don't believe in gods. That makes it true.

Sheesh Egordon.

He's confused. He's conflating one of the common flippant answers to the question "What is the meaning of life" and actually taking it seriously. Facepalm

Of course we can choose to do whatever we want. But we create our own purpose. There is no other purpose.

"I don't mind being wrong...it's a time I get to learn something new..."
Me.
N.B: I routinely make edits to posts to correct grammar or spelling, or to restate a point more clearly. I only notify edits if they materially change meaning.
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04-01-2015, 07:22 AM
RE: I can do it
(04-01-2015 12:59 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  
Quote:You're a foreigner aren't you? You ride a bicycle. You don't date. You're a closet homosexual, you hate God, and you tell people how you want their wives to die in auto accidents. And you're telling me how I have a wasted life?

1) Still waiting on the citation for me saying your wife should burn in the smoldering car wreck with you.

2) None of those things, living in a decent country (aka a non-American country), riding a bicycle, not dating, being of the gay, hating the idea of God have anything to do with wasting one's life...

I'm not saying you're wasting your life because you live in America or drive a car or have a wife or being bisexual or believing in God, I am saying you are wasting your life by actively trying to spread this religion of yours via books and websites and card readings and shit.

You can't even hold your own in an argument (if that's what this is) against a 23 year old man/child and yet you claim you're better than us and intelligent.
You're a joke. You always have been.

Drinking Beverage

I'm sorry: "Being of the gay." [Image: coffeelaugh.gif]
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04-01-2015, 07:28 AM
RE: I can do it
(04-01-2015 07:11 AM)Anjele Wrote:  
(04-01-2015 07:08 AM)Gordon Wrote:  Right, it's not an accomplishment. But if atheism is true, then it's all we were "meant" to do, as evidenced by our biology.

All we are meant to do is reproduce? How do you arrive at that conclusion?

Atheism is true - some people don't believe in gods. That makes it true.

Sheesh Egordon.

No, I don't think we are only meant to reproduce. But if there's no God, then there's only biology, and biologically speaking, that's what we do.

As to your second point, you're saying that atheism is simply "not believing in God" and nothing more. Nope. That's a cop out. That's a modern cop out by the way, because atheists used to state positively that God did not exist. Some still do. It's a cop out based on the fact that philosophically and logically you can't really say "God doesn't exist." In other words, there is no positive atheist argument, and it's not possible to construct one.
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04-01-2015, 07:37 AM
RE: I can do it
(04-01-2015 07:15 AM)gofish! Wrote:  
(04-01-2015 07:11 AM)Anjele Wrote:  All we are meant to do is reproduce? How do you arrive at that conclusion?

Atheism is true - some people don't believe in gods. That makes it true.

Sheesh Egordon.

He's confused. He's conflating one of the common flippant answers to the question "What is the meaning of life" and actually taking it seriously. Facepalm

Of course we can choose to do whatever we want. But we create our own purpose. There is no other purpose.

You can't create your own purpose unless you are the cause of your own existence.

But you hit on a key point: When atheists talk about creating one's own purpose, they are a hair's width apart from believing in God as a monistic entity. Which is what I believe in. In fact if you go at it from the other direction, from a monistic perspective, one is only a hair's width from being an atheist (and an atheist with a positive argument, I might add), because if everything, including consciousness, is from the substance of the one and only thing that exists, then there is no God--not a real one anyway. God (the monistic entity) can't have a God. We (created from the substance of the monistic entity) are as much God as everything else is. So there isn't a separate being to call "God." If we prove that God must be a monistic entity (which is easy to do), we automatically have a form of atheism--with all the benefits thereof. Yes
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04-01-2015, 07:38 AM
RE: I can do it
(04-01-2015 07:28 AM)Gordon Wrote:  
(04-01-2015 07:11 AM)Anjele Wrote:  All we are meant to do is reproduce? How do you arrive at that conclusion?

Atheism is true - some people don't believe in gods. That makes it true.

Sheesh Egordon.

No, I don't think we are only meant to reproduce. But if there's no God, then there's only biology, and biologically speaking, that's what we do.

As to your second point, you're saying that atheism is simply "not believing in God" and nothing more. Nope. That's a cop out. That's a modern cop out by the way, because atheists used to state positively that God did not exist. Some still do. It's a cop out based on the fact that philosophically and logically you can't really say "God doesn't exist." In other words, there is no positive atheist argument, and it's not possible to construct one.

I do not believe that a god or gods exist. It's not a cop out. I don't believe it. I can positively say what I believe or what I don't believe. You cannot presume to know what's in someone else's mind. I know that you want to think you can, but you can't. With all your other woo claims, you aren't a mind reader.

Stop with the word games.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF

We're all mad here. The Cheshire Cat
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04-01-2015, 07:39 AM
RE: I can do it
(04-01-2015 07:37 AM)Gordon Wrote:  You can't create your own purpose unless you are the cause of your own existence.

Well that'll be your little secret. Big Grin

"I don't mind being wrong...it's a time I get to learn something new..."
Me.
N.B: I routinely make edits to posts to correct grammar or spelling, or to restate a point more clearly. I only notify edits if they materially change meaning.
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04-01-2015, 08:09 AM
RE: I can do it
(04-01-2015 07:38 AM)Anjele Wrote:  
(04-01-2015 07:28 AM)Gordon Wrote:  No, I don't think we are only meant to reproduce. But if there's no God, then there's only biology, and biologically speaking, that's what we do.

As to your second point, you're saying that atheism is simply "not believing in God" and nothing more. Nope. That's a cop out. That's a modern cop out by the way, because atheists used to state positively that God did not exist. Some still do. It's a cop out based on the fact that philosophically and logically you can't really say "God doesn't exist." In other words, there is no positive atheist argument, and it's not possible to construct one.

I do not believe that a god or gods exist. It's not a cop out. I don't believe it. I can positively say what I believe or what I don't believe. You cannot presume to know what's in someone else's mind. I know that you want to think you can, but you can't. With all your other woo claims, you aren't a mind reader.

Stop with the word games.

It's not a word game, it's called philosophy. You can only state what you believe based on what you think is true. Is that a word game? Because to me it just seems to make sense.

You hold as a truth, in your mind, that there is no God. Otherwise, you wouldn't be an atheist, you'd be an agnostic.

The cop out is that you refuse to state the truth your belief is based on. You refuse to do that, because you know you can't logically defend it. No one can say with certainty that there is no God, not rationally anyway.

On the other hand, you can rationally say that God does exist. You might be wrong, but you can rationally hold it as a truth, because it appears logical that the universe was created.

Ironically, that's all theists have. That's where rationality ends. You cannot rationally state anything about this "creator." If you're a monist, you can say that the creator must be conscious, because there is consciousness in the universe, but that isn't saying much, and it certainly supports no religion whatsoever.

A monist is a kind of atheist, just as an atheist who believes life is more than just biological reproduction is a kind of theist--especially atheists who believe in morality. The difference between them is a micron.

And over the last few days, I have lost my religion as a result of this. Maybe that's what I came back here for, was to lose my religion.

Jesus Christ seems to be the way to understand God, but I will admit, I don't understand much about him (all the shtick for entertainment purposes in here aside). The Gospels seem to hold a deep truth, but I can't say for sure what it is.

There seems to be this presence with me since I was 9. It's not God, per se, because God is the monistic entity. It's not Jesus, and I never thought it was. It fits the description Jesus gave of the Holy Spirit. But had I not been raised a Christian, I never would have used that term. Spirit guide? Alien contact from another dimension? Guardian angel? Comforter? Higher self? The other? The fact is, I don't know what it is.

I've had strange experiences: precognitive dreams, intuitions, telepathy. I've seen strange things like protozoa moving about like they have a will and memory (But they are just one cell with no neurology at all). I've had answered prayers, healings. And I don't know what to make of all that. But none of it supports a religion--not of any kind I can invent anyway.

A Veridican, by definition of the word, is one who follows after that which is true. Hell, that doesn't even separate me from the atheists and agnostics, and it certainly doesn't separate me from all the other religions of the world. God, it seems, is not without a sense of humor in that respect.

Over the last two days, I've had revelations. I don't think God wants me to have a religion. What's strange in this experience is that when I free myself from my own dogma, when I try it out in my mind, I don't feel like I hate all religion, or like it's all bullshit, instead it's like it opens everything up and I see inside, and at the same time I step back and see the whole thing (paradox, much). And instead of hating all religions, I find I really love them all. It's like I feel as if I can encompass them all by letting go.

And I don't want to fight about it anymore. I can't even explain it, much less quantify it into some new religion. But I like it. It's like that song by creed "Higher."

Thanks for letting me use this reply to you to work out in words, what's been changing in my life. I needed to do this. Bowing



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