I can not only prove the existence of God I can prove the one true God! Welcome!
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28-03-2013, 09:48 PM
RE: I can not only prove the existence of God.
(28-03-2013 09:31 PM)rbmead1960 Wrote:  
(28-03-2013 08:27 PM)SomeOne Wrote:  Really?

So, you say that in the same way evidence leads me to determine something, "Moral values are proof that God must have instilled them in us when collaborated with the Scripture and the overwhelming agreement that it is wrong and people are naturally inclined to believe in God..." Did you read what you wrote? it makes no sense

Beside the point that you make a very bad argument, you lost me at "when collaborated with the Scripture". Why? Because you are trying to make me believe God exists based on another thing I dont believe in: the bible.

Also, I dont need to be confronted with "undeniable proof that needs to grow in my soul" to relate moral standards with God, morals are related to culture (i.e. if you grew up somewhere where raping women makes you a good person, you would most likely be raping women right now instead of talking about morality).

Why, and how do cultures determine our morals? You mean if I asked them if it was right to lie, steal or kill, they would say yes. No, you lose the difference in morals and cultural practices. People who rape can deal with alot of guilt. Why then would they have guilt. Sure you have experienced that also. Just have I and every other person.

Why would they say stealing is wrong? because they wouldnt like someone to steal from them. Why would they say killing is wrong? because they wouldnt like someone to kill them or their family/friends. You may want to look for the definition of "Empathy".

People who rape (in the context of the example) wont feel any guilt because they truly believe they are doing what they must, according to their culture.

In any case, guilt, love and all the things you feel are just chemical reactions in your brain, not something forced into you by some mystic force.

if your faith can move mountains it should be able to withstand criticism
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28-03-2013, 09:49 PM
RE: I can not only prove the existence of God.
(28-03-2013 09:19 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(28-03-2013 07:39 PM)rbmead1960 Wrote:  I simply asked if it was wrong or right and that seems quite difficult to answer. just that on its own. You have to know what the word kill meant in Exodus 20. Kill is to take a life of your own volition or will. It is outside of a war or government position policemen/ swat team/ executioner. On the matter of stealing, yes it was PERMISSABLE if a person stole to not punish them if it was for the case of hunger. It did not condone the action as right. It showed the mercy of the owner towards someone in such destitude conditions. Does that clarify you arguments?

No because it doesn't clarify what is right/wrong and who decided it.

I know those distinctions, but as you're saying. Punishment and reason change, so what makes right & wrong, right & wrong?

So you are telling me that if someone stole from you because of his need for hunger you would not help him/her. You can't decide right or wrong? Sorry, you can't decide such things. HOpe you picked the right things. Oh, but you say you can't tell what is right, I forgot.
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28-03-2013, 09:50 PM
I can prove the one true God! Welcome!
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28-03-2013, 09:52 PM
RE: I can not only prove the existence of God.
(28-03-2013 09:35 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(28-03-2013 09:31 PM)rbmead1960 Wrote:  Why, and how do cultures determine our morals? You mean if I asked them if it was right to lie, steal or kill, they would say yes. No, you lose the difference in morals and cultural practices. People who rape can deal with alot of guilt. Why then would they have guilt. Sure you have experienced that also. Just have I and every other person.

Alright.. you understand morality covers more than lying, killing, and stealing? You can focus outside of those as well

Slavery for instance is a clear distinction of morals. Equal rights of those of different genders/races. The moral stance of those change from culture to culture over history... why is that the case? It stems from people having an idea engrained in them in their development on what is acceptable or not. This comes from their society and family upbringing very often.

People feel guilt out of an emotional response. It seems to aid people have better relationships in groups since they feel poor when they hurt others. You can look at guild from various scientific/philosophical views. I once had a teacher describe guilt as an essential emotion that isn't something to be thought of as bad; yet just a feeling/response to grasp and better oneself with.

So we have guilt to feel better about ourselves. WHY? My guilt doesn't make me feel better, it makes me feel wrong. Why and where do we get guilt????? Great question.
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28-03-2013, 09:53 PM
RE: I can not only prove the existence of God.
(28-03-2013 09:42 PM)rbmead1960 Wrote:  
(28-03-2013 08:49 PM)DLJ Wrote:  Not to mention that the evidence (Pinker etc.) points to there being increasingly less violence in the world.

Drinking Beverage

Less violence. We have much of the world at war every year. How is this less violence. How about the rapes, abuse, bullying, killing going on in America. Go talk to a policeman and find that we are still a very violent country, even with, all of our sophisticated societal structure.

Do some research, dude.

There is no need to live in fear all your life.




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28-03-2013, 09:55 PM
RE: I can not only prove the existence of God.
(28-03-2013 09:45 PM)rbmead1960 Wrote:  ...
Are you seeking the evidence of God or the means to express your frustration towards him?

I used to be frustrated with Santa that he never brought me a bike.

I am frustrated with the gods in the same way.

Drinking Beverage

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28-03-2013, 09:57 PM (This post was last modified: 28-03-2013 10:01 PM by ClydeLee.)
RE: I can not only prove the existence of God.
(28-03-2013 09:49 PM)rbmead1960 Wrote:  
(28-03-2013 09:19 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  No because it doesn't clarify what is right/wrong and who decided it.

I know those distinctions, but as you're saying. Punishment and reason change, so what makes right & wrong, right & wrong?

So you are telling me that if someone stole from you because of his need for hunger you would not help him/her. You can't decide right or wrong? Sorry, you can't decide such things. HOpe you picked the right things. Oh, but you say you can't tell what is right, I forgot.

Since when are we talking about hypothetical questions involving ourselves? Did I tell you what I would do in that situation?

You are seemingly missing the huge point that is right in front of your face. You are asking people what is right or wrong. As if there HAS to be an existence of right and wrong. You've not described what or how something is right; who besides something is wrong.

I would likely let him keep the food if he stole food from me when starving. Is that right/wrong or is it just... is... There is various ways to look at these questions you think of as a pathway to leading to evidence to God.

Quote:So we have guilt to feel better about ourselves. WHY? My guilt doesn't make me feel better, it makes me feel wrong. Why and where do we get guilt????? Great question.
As before, Guilt comes from a deeper sense of having empathy. Coming from the emotions ingrained in order to assist animals in helping their young and entire group/herd survive.

This philosophy teachers point was that it's good to feel bad. It makes you understand how you can be better to your fellow company and live a fuller happier life.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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28-03-2013, 10:01 PM
RE: I can not only prove the existence of God.
(28-03-2013 09:47 PM)DLJ Wrote:  
(28-03-2013 09:31 PM)rbmead1960 Wrote:  ...
People who rape can deal with a lot of guilt. Why then would they have guilt. Sure you have experienced that also. Just have I and every other person.

Speak for yourself!

I have never raped anyone.

Ohmy

You brought it up smarty. I just answered you question. People who do wrong do feel guilt and pain. But thanks for the insult.
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28-03-2013, 10:03 PM
RE: I can not only prove the existence of God.
(28-03-2013 09:57 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(28-03-2013 09:49 PM)rbmead1960 Wrote:  So you are telling me that if someone stole from you because of his need for hunger you would not help him/her. You can't decide right or wrong? Sorry, you can't decide such things. HOpe you picked the right things. Oh, but you say you can't tell what is right, I forgot.

Since when are we talking about hypothetical questions involving ourselves? Did I tell you what I would do in that situation?

You are seemingly missing the huge point that is right in front of your face. You are asking people what is right or wrong. As if there HAS to be an existence of right and wrong. You've not described what or how something is right; who besides something is wrong.

I would likely let him keep the food if he stole food from me when starving. Is that right/wrong or is it just... is... There is various ways to look at these questions you think of as a pathway to leading to evidence to God.

Quote:So we have guilt to feel better about ourselves. WHY? My guilt doesn't make me feel better, it makes me feel wrong. Why and where do we get guilt????? Great question.
As before, Guilt comes from a deeper sense of having empathy. Coming from the emotions ingrained in order to assist animals in helping their young and entire group/herd survive.

This philosophy teachers point was that it's good to feel bad. It makes you understand how you can be better to your fellow company and live a fuller happier life.

Than why do we often do many things for our own benefit until we learn the lesson of looking out for others?
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28-03-2013, 10:04 PM
RE: I can not only prove the existence of God.
(28-03-2013 10:01 PM)rbmead1960 Wrote:  
(28-03-2013 09:47 PM)DLJ Wrote:  Speak for yourself!

I have never raped anyone.

Ohmy

You brought it up smarty. I just answered you question. People who do wrong do feel guilt and pain. But thanks for the insult.

Let me assist you.

People who think what they did was wrong are likely to feel guilt.

We have not established right from wrong.

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