I can not only prove the existence of God I can prove the one true God! Welcome!
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28-03-2013, 11:11 PM
RE: I can not only prove the existence of God.
(28-03-2013 10:21 PM)rbmead1960 Wrote:  
(28-03-2013 10:06 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Self-preservation? I don't know quite. I'm sure nobody know perfectly because that's dwelling into human psychology; Why do we do anything territory.

We are far from perfect and not quite wise(or maybe stupid) enough to make long term decisions all the time.

That is the most profound thing I have heard anyone say tonight. Yes, we are often wrong or bad at long term decisions. We decide most things by the moment on emotions or perceived benefits, rather than, long term decisions that more right and beneficial for us. Now God is the same concept in many ways. He tells us to prepare today for the long term, and we often want to dissuade and deny the importance of finding how to reconcile our relationship to the Almighty God of the Universe.

So you are saying that we decide most things on the fly based upon emotions and perceived benefits, rather than long term decisions. Then you say that god is that same concept. So god is perceived as what we perceive as benefiting us emotionally now or in the long run. You said it. God is what we perceive.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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28-03-2013, 11:16 PM
RE: I can not only prove the existence of God.
(28-03-2013 10:54 PM)Doctor X Wrote:  
(28-03-2013 10:51 PM)rbmead1960 Wrote:  The bible said the earth was round. But thanks for quoting the Bible. You must believe it is authoritative in evidence. Isaiah 40:22

"You really do walk into these things, don't you Baldrick"

Is 40:22:

This passage generates a great deal of apology from Christian Fundamentalists. Since "youre taking it out of context" is one common approach, one should consider the fuller passage:

Have you not known? Have you not heard?
Has it not been told you from the beginning?
Have you not understood from the foundations of the Earth?
It is he who sits above the circle of the Earth [על חג הארץ--Ed.], [`al-ḥḡ hāʼareṣ-Ed.]
and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers;
who stretches out the heavens like a curtain,
and spreads them like a tent to live in;
who brings princes to naught,
and makes the rulers of the earth as nothing (NRSV corrected, BH4).

Isaiah, as it exists now, appears to be the work of at least three separate authors. Isaiah 40 comes from the second author or Deutero-Isaiah, who dates from 539 BCE. "Foundations of the Earth." The heavens are a "curtain" "stretched" over this "circle of the Earth." How does one do that with a sphere? Further, the author uses the same word to refer to circle of a camp.

The literalists I encounter who wish to preserve the myth of biblical inerrancy, attempt to argue that, somehow, the author and audience understood a circle not to mean circle but sphere. They never present any evidence for this beyond ipse dixit and threats to pray for you. Is there any evidence Deutero-Isaiah and his audience would have understood the circle as flat? I contend, based on the the details of the passage, it is obviously flat.

As we will explore later, there is a passage in Isaiah from the same period which uses a word for "roll up" or "ball." Why would Deutero-Isaiah not use this word if he intended a spherical description of the Earth? One can try to counter that since they are probably separate authors, one cannot expect to know the word that other author uses. Deutero-Isaiahs descriptions of stretching the sky like a curtain and a tent only fits a flat Earth.

However, there exists stronger evidence of how readers interpreted this passage.

The Greeks understood spheres. Over roughly three hundred years (Klein), the HB texts were translated into the lingua franca of the educated: Greek. This translations are referred to as the Septuagint and often abbreviated with LXX. How the LXX renders "circle of the Earth?" proves most revealing:

ὁ κατέχων τὸν γῦρον τῆς γῆς καὶ οἱ ἐνοικοῦντες ἐν αὐτῇ ὡς ἀκρίδες ὁ στήσας ὡς καμάραν τὸν οὐρανὸν καὶ διατείνας ὡς σκηνὴν κατοικεῖν (LXX)

γῦρος is a "ring" and "circle" and is used to describe "a trench around a tree," (LSJ). This is clearly a flat structure and not a sphere. The Greeks had a number of words for "sphere," not the least: "sphairikos"--σφαιρικός. Thus, the translators of the Hebrew into Greek understood the Earth in Is 40:22 as a flat circle, not a round sphere.

Quod erat demonstrandum.

--J.D.

That is to God, a flat circle. To us it is a full circle. We do not have the full perspective that he does. Not too hard now that you proved the earth is a circle. Thank you
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28-03-2013, 11:16 PM
RE: I can not prove the existence of God.
(28-03-2013 11:04 PM)rbmead1960 Wrote:  
(28-03-2013 10:42 PM)DLJ Wrote:  If that is the best you can do, you have just refuted your claim...

"I am willing and able to ... prove ... which God of the 5 major religions is true"

In Iran and Afghanistan, the year is... 8 Farvardin 1392 SH (Solar Hijri calendar)

In Saudi Arabia, the year is 17 Jumada al-awwal 1434 AH (Hijri calendar)

In Thailand, the year is 2556 BE (Buddhist Era: พ.ศ. พุทธศักราช póot ta sàk-gà-râat)

QED

Thanks for playing

Buddha wins.

Smartass

But I didn't ask that. 2013 AD is Anno Domini "the year of our Lord." Others may have other systems but the most recognizable is what the most powerful civilization in History set up as the calendar, Romans did this very thing.

Argumentum ad populum. No

Oh dear. Surely you can do better than that.

But I think have you stumbled upon some truth. Well done.

You have discovered why there are so many under the yoke of christendom.

Yup, Emperor Constantine and the good 'ol Romans.

But hey! They didn't have the Interwebz.

Fortunately for our younger generations, fact checking is just a click away.

They can free themselves from the child-abuse that subjugated their parents.

Praise Gwynnie.

Bowing

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28-03-2013, 11:18 PM (This post was last modified: 05-04-2013 11:25 PM by Doctor X.)
RE: I can not only prove the existence of God.
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Those who administer and moderate in order to exercise personal agenda merely feed into the negative stereotype of Atheism
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28-03-2013, 11:21 PM
RE: I can not prove the existence of God.
(28-03-2013 10:28 PM)rbmead1960 Wrote:  How about evidence of History.

OK, let's...

(28-03-2013 10:28 PM)rbmead1960 Wrote:  Why is the year 2013 AD?

Because an organization of human men started counting years from the time they believe a special guy existed. Just because they claimed to believe this guy existed, doesn't mean that he really did - it was the human men who created this system of counting years.

(28-03-2013 10:28 PM)rbmead1960 Wrote:  Who made the gregorian calendar.

Another group of human men belonging to the same organizaition, 431 years ago (or about 1,550 years after Christ allegedly died. None of these men met him, or had any proof that Christ even existed. They took it on faith and might have been misguided. In any case, their whole reason was to change the calendar to match the vernal equinox so they could synchronize Christ's alleged resurrection with a lunar event - a blatant manipulation of the minds of the masses for the benefit of their organization.

(28-03-2013 10:28 PM)rbmead1960 Wrote:  What does the word Bible mean?

The English word "bible" derives from the Greek word "biblios" which means book. So what? One book that happens to be very old is called "The Book" or even "The Holy Book". No big deal, it's still just a book. More people read Harry Potter this last decade than read the Bible, so maybe we should start calling Harry Potter "The Book" and drop that term from your book?

(28-03-2013 10:28 PM)rbmead1960 Wrote:  Was Jericho a real city? Do you know how God told them to defeat the city that had a double walled protection, in an age where forged metal had not been commonly developed. Embryonic age of metal forging.

Ah, Jericho. There's a real one in New York state. Probably others.

Was the biblical one real? Maybe. Probably, if archaeologists are to be believed. At least I think the latest evidence supports that Jericho has been identified.

So what?

Does the fact that a real city that might be the biblical Jericho has been found prove every word of the bible? Not even close. Saying that is like saying that the Harry Potter books mention London, and London is a real city, so every word in Harry Potter is true. Clearly, it's possible that the Harry Potter books are fiction, the magic almost certainly is fictional, even if the city is real. Likewise, it's possible that the bible is fiction, the magic almost certainly is fictional, even if the city is real.

(28-03-2013 10:28 PM)rbmead1960 Wrote:  To find truth you must be willing to seek it out and listen to it.

Oh, I am. Are you?

(28-03-2013 10:28 PM)rbmead1960 Wrote:  If I feed you everything you will not have it settled as truth in your mind.

Why do you make assumptions about my mind? Have you not already said, in this thread, that god wants me to come to heaven and spend eternity with him? I want that too. So find me some evidence that seems plausible, some real evidence, not this junk here that I'm replying to, and I'll really consider it.

(28-03-2013 10:28 PM)rbmead1960 Wrote:  And that is the most important thing to me and hopefully to you. Truth is often a journey and not a destination!

Absolutely. I 100% agree with you.

Want to hear a secret?

The difference between you and me is that, while we both want the Truth, you begin by assuming the Truth because an ancient book tells you it's true, and then (supposedly) try to prove it by finding supporting evidence and ignoring contrary evidence, while I begin by having no assumptions about the Truth whatsoever and I consequently evaluate every bit of evidence, for or against the god idea, on its own merit.

Your way is merely gullibility disguised as seeking truth. You should try it my way.

"Whores perform the same function as priests, but far more thoroughly." - Robert A. Heinlein
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28-03-2013, 11:26 PM
RE: I can not only prove the existence of God.
(28-03-2013 10:53 PM)Aseptic Skeptic Wrote:  
(28-03-2013 10:14 PM)rbmead1960 Wrote:  My desire is to share that because God wants to spend eternity with everyone that is willing and able to follow his precepts. God bless!

Oh really? Your god wants this?

If that is what he wants, he has sure picked a really stupid way to achieve it. Billions of people on this planet following the wrong (e.g. not yours) religion, all going to hell.

Why?

Because none of us, not even you, know which religion is the ONE TRUE religion so everyone just has to guess, or simply be raised with whatever religion, right or wrong, their parents had.

Why?

Because your god can't be bothered with actually telling us how to achieve this afterlife that you say he wants. Don't give me crap about a 2,000 year old book of questionable authorship, questionable accuracy, questionable translation, and hundreds of internal inconsistencies. That's the best your god can do to achieve this goal that you say he wants?

Not a very good demonstration of omnipotence or omniscience.

Meanwhile, billions of souls are burning in hell for eternity because your god can't figure out a better way?

Nonsense. And you know it.

You have many misconceptions, the Book is not 2000 years old. You are partially right, but the Old Testament is over 3600 years old. How about a book written over 1600 years and so cohesive. The "authors" were not authors, they were just "penman." God dictated the message to them. Men could not come up with such profound and deep theological concepts. You talk about the billions of souls that need to hear the TRUE message of salvation. That is why I do this and am writing books, but the WHOLE modern world was evangelized by the 12 DISCIPLES n less than 100 years. We have the means to reach the world in a greater and easier way than back then, by radio, newspaper, videos and telivision. Any message can be delivered to the masses if we choose to put forth the effort. Plus, God said that he wrote his law on our hearts. He gave us the message and desire to find him, but do we seek it out. If we truly do, he will make the means delivered to us.
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28-03-2013, 11:28 PM
RE:
(28-03-2013 10:56 PM)SomeOne Wrote:  rbmead1960, it seems you missed my comment again.

Dont worry, I know there are too many to respond to. If it helps, its on page 14.

tks I will look at what you said.
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28-03-2013, 11:33 PM (This post was last modified: 05-04-2013 11:24 PM by Doctor X.)
RE: I can not only prove the existence of God.
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Those who administer and moderate in order to exercise personal agenda merely feed into the negative stereotype of Atheism
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28-03-2013, 11:37 PM (This post was last modified: 05-04-2013 11:24 PM by Doctor X.)
RE: I can not only prove the existence of God.
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Those who administer and moderate in order to exercise personal agenda merely feed into the negative stereotype of Atheism
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28-03-2013, 11:43 PM
RE: I can not only prove the existence of God.
(28-03-2013 10:25 PM)SomeOne Wrote:  
(28-03-2013 10:11 PM)rbmead1960 Wrote:  Sadly, you are wrong. We do not love unless we have learned it from God. So you could say that I am willingly having him force love into me. I choose to accept his example and try to replicate it in my life. True love is different than what the world pleases - temporal, self-pleasing and worthless infatuation (a new car). When real love of God is "doing and giving something in the best interest of others." That God did for us, by sending his Son, Jesus Christ, to die for something he did not do, so that, we could possibly receive forgiveness for our sins.

"We do not love unless we have learned it from God"? False, like I said, love is a set of chemical reactions in the brain.

Yeap, he supposedly sent his son to die for something he did not do, neither the people who "he did it for". God created people imperfect, and knowing they will sin, he expects them not to. Then he decides all human on earth will be guilty for that one sin someone did thousands of years ago and that the only way for him forgive them was to send his son as human to die tortured... because F*ck logic....

If that fairy tail you are refering to is love, then I prefer not to be loved, its just insane.
deeply appreciate your honesty!!! But here are the problems to your statement 1) God did not create imperfect people "God said that everything that he made was GOOD." God is not the creator or author of SIN. How can he create sinful beings and expect them not to sin. that is contrary to rightness or logic or fairness. 2) Mankind is not guilty because of Adam's sin, Romans 5:12. We were there in the "loins" of Adam, just as if Adam had not sinned, I would definitely would have - and so would you. 3) it would take a longer discussion to determine why Jesus had to die for the sins of mankind. To start with determing the proper thinking you need to realize that God cannot ASSOCIATE or FELLOWSHIP with SINFUL mankind, and mankind could not ERASE their SIN NATURE. We continue to SIN because of our vessel (body). So one thing I want you to think about is, if mankind is Sinful and God can't fellowship with that kind of person in HEAVEN, than how would you rectify the situation? Mankind would have to DIE to pay the PENALTY for their and mine sin. God had to make a plan B. He gave man the OPPORTUNITY to enjoy his presence and not sin, and he and we could not follow ONE RULE. Think on that, please.
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