I can not only prove the existence of God I can prove the one true God! Welcome!
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29-03-2013, 12:44 PM
RE: I can not only prove the existence of God I can prove the one true God! Welcome!
(29-03-2013 12:35 PM)rbmead1960 Wrote:  The proof that God is of the Bible, Jehovah...

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יהוה

These four letters were very loosely translated into the English ‘Jehovah.’ However, there is no ‘j’ sound in the Hebrew. So, a better approximation of the name of God would be Yahweh.

~from http://carm.org/questions/about-god/what...vah-yahweh

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29-03-2013, 12:46 PM
RE: I can not only prove the existence of God I can prove the one true God! Welcome!
(29-03-2013 12:39 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(29-03-2013 12:36 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  Nuh-uh! I gotta draw her on my wall some morez; but I ain't fully recovered from the last episode. Big Grin

You have no idea how many ways that can be taken....or then again maybe you do and meant it that way...

Kinda like a pineapple air freshener. Wink

Mmmn... pineapples... and Gwynnies... I may hafta go lay down. Big Grin

(See what you started?)

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29-03-2013, 12:47 PM
RE: I can not only prove thI can prove the one true God! Welcome!
(29-03-2013 10:24 AM)rbmead1960 Wrote:  
(29-03-2013 12:18 AM)Aseptic Skeptic Wrote:  Again you claim that god wants to spend eternity with us, but HIS OWN (alleged) ACTIONS prove that statement wrong.

I posted why your god clearly does not want to spend eternity with everyone but you must have missed it, lots of posts on this thread, so here's your chance to reply and explain how your god wants to spend eternity with everyone but works so hard to guarantee that most of us will go to hell.

Please respond this time
GREAT QUESTION! Pat yourself on the back! God does want to spend eternity with EVERYONE. The passage in 2 Peter 3:9 is precisely this, "The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentence.

So God does want to spend eternity with everyone BUT we must define his nature better to actually understand his proper workings. How does he "tic"?

OK, great, let's define his nature...

(29-03-2013 10:24 AM)rbmead1960 Wrote:  1) Man is created with a FREE WILL - no matter the amount of his DESIRE to spend eternity with HIM, he cannot violate your free will to choose your own desiny.

My children were also born with free will. However, when my child runs out into the street, I immediately violate her freewill and make her come back to the safe yard. When my child tries to steal something from a store when we're shopping, I immediately violate her freewill and make her put it back.

I could cite countless cases where, as a parent, I immediately violate my children's free will in order to teach them, in no uncertain terms, how to live their lives safely and in accordance with the laws as well.

(29-03-2013 10:24 AM)rbmead1960 Wrote:  2) Since mankind is sinful (we all have sinned against God's laws - lie, cheat and steal to name a few) he is JUST and RIGHT to sentence people who do not seek His GIFT of FORGIVENESS and ALLEGIANCE to HIM as being peoploe who have REJECTED HIM and HIS WAYS. Thus, he is appropriately and justly sending people to a place of torment for such actions.

I do not agree that we are sinful. You believe that because an ancient book of mythology tells you so. I don't accept that your book is authentic or authoritative or accurate or even applicable.

I also do not agree that all non-Christians are rejecting him or not seeking him. I surely did and still do seek to find this god of yours. I prefer to think that my life is not the only thing I get, I want an afterlife, I want a kind and loving god to grant me eternal happiness rather than just getting oblivion. I don't believe such a thing exists, but I'm always looking for reasons to reconsider that lack of belief.

In any case, even if I grant you that mankind is sinful, then I still do not agree that your god is appropriately and justly tormenting people for eternity based on them occasionally committing a sinful act.

(29-03-2013 10:24 AM)rbmead1960 Wrote:  3) God does not really send men to HELL. They CHOOSE their DESTINY by their actions. He is just the facilitator or their decision.

Wrong again.

First of all, god has not clearly laid out these laws. Again, I say that the bible is a horrendously useless book for this purpose. It is full of internal contradictions and incorrect information. On top of that, it has been miscopied and mistranslated and adjusted by men who, through mistakes and through deliberate manipulation, have altered it almost beyond recognition compared to earlier versions.

Even Christians cannot all agree on what is correct and what is metaphorical, nor can they all agree on how to worship or on how to be saved.

In addition, there are countless other religions and no clear reason to choose any of them. Sure, you think you have found the one, but your opinion is now biased - for everyone else, they're all more or less equally believable.

Add in the fact that god hasn't bothered to demonstrate even on tiny hint of his existence for thousands of years, plus he's deliberately hiding from us behind a mountain of scientific evidence and philosophical reasoning that contradicts his error-riddled bible.

No, I find that the bible is a piss-poor justification for behavior.

If this is the best god can provide, then he's the worst Father in the entire history of parenting.

Given that god cannot be bothered with teaching us clearly and demonstrably how to live our lives, then how can he hold us accountable for our actions when there is no real reason to know what that accountability will be?

(29-03-2013 10:24 AM)rbmead1960 Wrote:  4) God gives clear signs over and over again to try and draw you into his fellowship, but once again it is ultimately your choice and not his. Like being invited to a party, but the hosts will not force you to come. You must acknowledge the invitation and make efforts to properly get there.

As I've shown, god gives us nothing that is clear. Further, he's hiding from us. You probably don't see it that way because you're a believer, you see only what you want to see. But there is not one reason for me to pick your god over Allah, Buddha, Vishnu, or countless other choices. There is not even one reason for me to pick any god at all, since science and philosophy teach us that all religions are very likely to be wrong.

Joining any religion is a matter of gullibility or fear, and anyone living without those two concerns has no reason to join a religion (obviously, most religious people don't join, but rather are indoctrinated at a very young age before they get any choice, and then they grow up unquestioningly remaining in their indoctrination).

You are right, it's my choice, but since not one god, not any of them, ever, give me any reason to select them from among the heap of improbable and unbelievable gods, then the choice is quite clear - I don't need them until one of them shows me a reason to believe in him or her.

Like being invited to a party? Not anything like that. When I get invited to a party, I can be reasonably certain that there will actually be a party. I will be told where and when. If I have reason to doubt that the party exists, I can simply show up and find out if the party is there. If not, then I know the invitation was bogus. If it's there, I can enjoy the party.

Your god is nothing like that. I don't have an invitation, all I have is ancient mythology. I have you telling me that this is equivalent to an invitation. I have gone to this party, many times, and every time it's not there. No god. No angels. No anything. Not even a voice in my head. I now have plenty of reason to assume there is no party and I need more than your assurance that there is.

(29-03-2013 10:24 AM)rbmead1960 Wrote:  I am sorry that I missed your previous post. I tried to answer all of them. Tks again for the honest question. And I would like need to take an elongated response as to why God is angered at our sin. I can show why his anger is justified. But tried to make it brief.

You said let's define the nature of your god. Here it is:

Hah, good luck. I look forward to it. I still submit that god has not given us clear instructions, not even unclear instructions, on how we are supposed to live our lives. I further submit that any divinity capable of creating this universe and populating part of it with us is too smart, too wise, to misunderstand this simple point. If your god exists, then he knows he hasn't given us clear instructions. He knows he been a horrible parent. And he would be smart enough to not be angry at us for his bad parenting.

To put it in perspective, imagine if I never taught my daughters how to behave. From the moment they were born, I hid from them. I watched from afar. At some point, I left a book about Hercules lying around for them. I expect them to live their lives exactly like Hercules did. I also let them read hundreds of other books, but only the Hercules book matters. I keep watching from afar. I never teach them anything. Nothing at all. Then, when they're much older, say, 40 years old, I finally pass judgment on them. If they lived their entire lives like Hercules, I make them happy. If they did not, I throw them in a torture room and torture them for the rest of their lives.

This is what your god has done. I don't believe anybody, even a poor, miserable, imperfect human, would be this stupid and this cruel. But you believe your god is this stupid and this cruel, and further, you love him for it and worship him for it.

You're going to have to try much harder to convince me that this all makes any sense at all.

"Whores perform the same function as priests, but far more thoroughly." - Robert A. Heinlein
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29-03-2013, 12:48 PM
RE: I can not only prove thI can prove the one true God! Welcome!
(29-03-2013 12:15 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(29-03-2013 11:54 AM)rbmead1960 Wrote:  what are these myths and legends that you speak of? Please tell me, were you there. Where is this first hand knowledge. Collaboration to your claim?

Wow, you know nothing about your beliefs. We do know there are far older accounts of the same stories...Even Greek, Roman and Egyptian mythology are tied to what you believe.
Epic of Gilgamesh is just one of thousands...

Yet you claim on some odd face value that what you're saying is true...and you have yet to provide any proof -- which you said you could do...

You cannot use the bible to prove the bible is true...do you not see how circular that reasoning is? You weren't there when it was written...you haven't a clue...you were indoctrinated. Brain washed. Open your eyes to the possibility that you can be good without gods.

I dare you to do a little research, take off the god glasses that you see the world through and I challenge you to think. If you do all that, we'll welcome you back.

If you refuse...

Shoo fly.

So if people think like and act like you than you accept them. That is what I am talking about, the selfishness of mankind. Their way or the highway. God is inclusive of all who come to him on his terms.
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29-03-2013, 12:55 PM
RE: I can not only prove thI can prove the one true God! Welcome!
(29-03-2013 12:48 PM)rbmead1960 Wrote:  So if people think like and act like you than you accept them. That is what I am talking about, the selfishness of mankind. Their way or the highway. God is inclusive of all who come to him on his terms.

"on his terms".

You don't see the irony of that?

It would be one thing if god clearly defined those terms, rather than letting us find the needle in the god haystack (pick the right religion from among thousands), then interpret the wrong, inaccurate, inconsistent, miscopied, mistranslated bible, force us to sort out which passages are metaphors, which are out of context, which are false, and from the rest we are supposed to derive his perfect rules for us.

If god clearly defined his terms for us, rather than hiding them like he does, then at least I could understand why you might think we're supposed to come to him on his terms.

Until then, he is still the worst Father in the history of parenting.

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29-03-2013, 12:55 PM
RE: I can not only prove the existence of God I can prove the one true God! Welcome!
(29-03-2013 12:46 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  
(29-03-2013 12:39 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  You have no idea how many ways that can be taken....or then again maybe you do and meant it that way...

Kinda like a pineapple air freshener. Wink

Mmmn... pineapples... and Gwynnies... I may hafta go lay down. Big Grin

(See what you started?)

So how much pineapple infused fluid does one require to draw your beloved Gwynnies on a wall?


God is a concept by which we measure our pain -- John Lennon

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29-03-2013, 12:59 PM
RE: I can not only prove the existence of God I can prove the one true God! Welcome!
(29-03-2013 12:43 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(29-03-2013 12:35 PM)rbmead1960 Wrote:  The proof that God is of the Bible, Jehovah, is because of his Prophecy's that were fulfilled. Let's completely understand this, He delivered his message that certain things would come to pass to be the Messiah (which means Deliverer). Things that were tucked in various "penmens'' writings. They weren't all put in one book. Doesn't that give you a clue that the validity is because of not only the prophecy coming to pass, but it was prophecied by many prophets. It gives it more credence. the Messiah was to be 1)Born of the lineage of David, 2) Born in the town of Bethlehem Ephratah (there were two bethlehem's in Israel), 3) Born of a virgin (no man intervention) 4) Die on a cross (not even a form of persecution when written around 1000 B.C.) 5) To have no bones broken (soldiers commonly broke crucified people legs so they would die quicker from lack of oxygen), 6) Be in the grave for 3 days, 7) Rise from the grave. There are many more of the prophecy's concerning the FULFILLED prophecy's concerning Jesus being the Messiah. Most of all the prophecy's were 500 to 1000 years before the event. God has the ability to transcend time. He is not bound by time. He is God almighty! He can do almost anything. Why is this so hard?

If I told you 5 or 6 specific event that would happen on some specific day, what would you think? I also had no knowledge from anyone else, I declared the message to be from God. That is what happened with Jesus of Nazareth. His very name means "Savior." Christ means "Messiah." How clearer a message do you want. Do you want the other 30 some prophecy's about his life that were fulfilled to produce your belief in his message. this is a different message than any other religion. I am writing a book to show the falisies of Islam. No other religous system holds a "light" to the teachings of Jehovah and Jesus Christ.

If I write a novel, say a murder mystery and I leave clues to the murderer. When the reader uncovers the truth based on the clues embedded and woven into the story...is that prophesy?

Read Psalms 22:12-21 Does it not sound like the crucifixion of Jesus Christ, and it was written about 1000 years before the event happened. these are not hidden clues.
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29-03-2013, 01:04 PM
RE: I can not only prove the existence of God I can prove the one true God! Welcome!
(29-03-2013 12:55 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(29-03-2013 12:46 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  Mmmn... pineapples... and Gwynnies... I may hafta go lay down. Big Grin

(See what you started?)

So how much pineapple infused fluid does one require to draw your beloved Gwynnies on a wall?

Ohmy Shocking

I'm not talking to you no morez. Big Grin

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29-03-2013, 01:04 PM
RE: I can not only prove the existence of God I can prove the one true God! Welcome!
(29-03-2013 12:59 PM)rbmead1960 Wrote:  
(29-03-2013 12:43 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  If I write a novel, say a murder mystery and I leave clues to the murderer. When the reader uncovers the truth based on the clues embedded and woven into the story...is that prophesy?

Read Psalms 22:12-21 Does it not sound like the crucifixion of Jesus Christ, and it was written about 1000 years before the event happened. these are not hidden clues.


It sounds vaguely like it if you squint hard enough.

No, you are reading way more in to it than is actually there.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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29-03-2013, 01:05 PM
RE: I can not only prove the existence of God I can prove the one true God! Welcome!
(29-03-2013 12:59 PM)rbmead1960 Wrote:  
(29-03-2013 12:43 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  If I write a novel, say a murder mystery and I leave clues to the murderer. When the reader uncovers the truth based on the clues embedded and woven into the story...is that prophesy?

Read Psalms 22:12-21 Does it not sound like the crucifixion of Jesus Christ, and it was written about 1000 years before the event happened. these are not hidden clues.

Yeah, for that to be useful, you need proof that an actual person was crucified, but on a second note it could mean that this description was used to make it seem like it was fulfilled. (IE, meaning NT writers added the crucifixion BS to give Jesus more credibility)

Bury me with my guns on, so when I reach the other side - I can show him what it feels like to die.
Bury me with my guns on, so when I'm cast out of the sky, I can shoot the devil right between the eyes.
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