I can't rationalize atheism
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12-04-2014, 09:39 PM (This post was last modified: 12-04-2014 09:55 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: I can't rationalize atheism
(12-04-2014 05:04 PM)diddo97 Wrote:  
(12-04-2014 05:00 PM)natachan Wrote:  1) no, sweety, it doesn't. There is no link between physical reality and thought. You say there is? Provide evidence.
2) The existence of the universe is evidence for nothing but the universe. "I don't know" doesn't mean God did it.
3) I've written a long piece on sin. Search if you want. Short version: being a normal human does not count as a crime.
4) Explain. This looks like word salad to me.

1. No no. The ontological argument proves that if it's possible that a maximally great being exists, a maximally great being MUST exist. So, nonbeliever must now prove that a maximally great being cannot exist.
2. Everything that exists has a cause. Do you disagree with that statement
3. I am lower than a normal person
4. http://carm.org/materialistic-atheism-self-refuting

1. Nope it does no such thing. Reality has been proven to be non-intuitive at its most fundamental level, thus your premise is false on many levels. A deity which "must" exist is *subject* to the laws of Reality, thus cannot be it's creator. So sad. Too bad. That one is crap. A god of the gaps explanation as you have a low ambiguity tolerance, and REQUIRE cognitive closure.
2. That statement is irrelevant and meaningless in the instance of the universe (a decision to create *before* spacetime is meanngless). You really should learn about singularities, and stop making a fool of yourself.
3. You are a person. Your perception of yourself is irrelevant, and if you REQUIRE a deity (for salvation) that's no one else's problem other than your own.
4. Your link to the idiot spouting this : "How does one chemical state that leads to another chemical state in the brain produce proper logical inference? There is no known mechanism that enables this." is totally wrong, and he demonstrates his utter ignorance of Neuro-science. His asserting crap does not make crap true. It's still crap. Psychology knows how humans learn and reason, and store memories.

Your inability to "rationalize" atheism is your problem, not ours.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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12-04-2014, 09:44 PM
RE: I can't rationalize atheism
(12-04-2014 09:23 PM)diddo97 Wrote:  
(12-04-2014 09:21 PM)DemonicLemon Wrote:  Crulax being Batman is an example of a perfect being being thought up, but not exactly existing. The Crulax part exists, but not the Batman thing to be exact.

Batman isn't a perfect being.

Congrats, you convinced me to dust off an old .gif idea I had a while back.

[Image: kngzxy.gif]

“You see… sometimes life gives you lemons. And when that happens… you need to find some spell that makes lemons explode, because lemons are terrible. I only ate them once and I can say with certainty they are the worst fruit. If life gave me lemons, I would view it as nothing short of a declaration of war."
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12-04-2014, 09:44 PM
RE: I can't rationalize atheism
(12-04-2014 08:56 PM)diddo97 Wrote:  
(12-04-2014 06:14 PM)cjlr Wrote:  I think I just figured you out.

Your being an idiot is necessarily why you accept ontological and cosmological arguments, flawed though they are. You're too dumb to realize that the arguments themselves are also stupid.

(this does follow pretty trivially from the premises you provide)

Why yes, I am retarded. Good observation. This is part of why I can't be an atheist. I don't know much of anything.

I did not use the word retarded. I said stupid. There is a difference between being below average and being certifiably developmentally disabled. There is yet another difference between being stupid and being ignorant.

But I guess a stupid person such as yourself wouldn't know the difference.

It was not an observation, either. It is explicitly what you said about yourself. I make no judgement of you; I simply accept the statements you present of yourself.

But I guess a stupid person such as yourself wouldn't know the difference.

Cosmological arguments are idiotic nonsense and ontological arguments are even more idiotic nonsense. If you find them compelling then you either have not or will not examine them rationally. Assertion is not substantiation, and neither "argument" is anything but the most wishful non sequitur failure pile of assertions.

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12-04-2014, 09:57 PM
RE: I can't rationalize atheism
(12-04-2014 05:09 PM)diddo97 Wrote:  ...
I'm not even worth 1/100000 of a smart person

I think Socrates said something similar. So, there's that.

(12-04-2014 05:04 PM)diddo97 Wrote:  ...
1. No no. The ontological argument proves that if it's possible that a maximally great being exists, a maximally great being MUST exist. So, nonbeliever must now prove that a maximally great being cannot exist.
...
(12-04-2014 08:57 PM)diddo97 Wrote:  ...
The ontological argument proves that a maximally great being must exist.

My god is greater than your god. If you can list the properties of the greatest god, I can always say +1 Smile

Which is greater:
a) A being so great that it can create the entire universe?
b) A being so great that it can create the entire universe while simultaneously not existing?

I vote b).


(12-04-2014 05:28 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  ... not without promise.

Welcome back, chief.

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12-04-2014, 10:04 PM
RE: I can't rationalize atheism
What you are really saying is....You would like to have a reasonable and rational explanation for the things we observe about the world but your wishful thinking about a fantasy is getting in the way.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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12-04-2014, 10:08 PM (This post was last modified: 12-04-2014 10:12 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: I can't rationalize atheism
(12-04-2014 09:27 PM)diddo97 Wrote:  
(12-04-2014 09:25 PM)Crulax Wrote:  [Image: batman_slap_robin__bat_slap__by_pickeled...3lg1q9.jpg]

You have presented no argument.

Neither have you.
BTW, as I recall that "perfect being" thingy was one of Aquinas' arguments. The fact that no one could agree what "maximum perfection" actually is, makes THAT a crap argument also.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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12-04-2014, 10:14 PM
RE: I can't rationalize atheism
(12-04-2014 08:57 PM)diddo97 Wrote:  The ontological argument proves that a maximally great being must exist.

A maximally great being does exist. There exists a being that is "greater" than any other being that exists. There is no reason to connect this maximal greatness to godliness or godlike powers or any other such thing. As far as we know the maximally great being could be a blue whale. It is, after all, the biggest species around at the moment that we are aware of.

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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12-04-2014, 10:20 PM
RE: I can't rationalize atheism
You know what? I admit that a great being may have created us. But, I will never admit it is the god or gods or goddesses of any major religion.
Whatever great being created us, probably has to live in their own upper reality. The great being is probably just some amateur citizen scientist or gamer running a game of "sims 3" on their computer. They are probably some alien race conducting an experiment. I don't know, but if we ever see this being, it will probably be a lot less impressive than our bronze age mythology.
I don't fight against the idea of a god, I just fight against these religions which cause wars, discrimination, crime, and many other things. I don't think people should worship a god in the ways they do today. They shouldn't worship at all, but everyone should be open minded to the idea of a creator being or no creator being. It's just the image that people give a supreme being that gets me. I feel like a god wouldn't be any of those images and more of something relaxed and logical. We shouldn't pray or worship any god until we find out what it is. And I'm sure it won't need constant ego nourishment.

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12-04-2014, 10:40 PM
RE: I can't rationalize atheism
(12-04-2014 10:04 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  What you are really saying is....You would like to have a reasonable and rational explanation for the things we observe about the world but your wishful thinking about a fantasy is getting in the way.

What wishful thinking? I don't want to believe.

Truth seeker.
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12-04-2014, 10:41 PM
RE: I can't rationalize atheism
Priapism, that's some scary shit right there. Tongue

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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