I come bearing the good news of my Father which art in Heaven.
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11-05-2016, 10:35 PM
RE: I come bearing the good news of my Father which art in Heaven.
Pro-Tips for Theists

Here are two things to consider before you post anything on this forum in regards to your personal interpretation of a god.


Define your god in a meaningful way.

Before we can have an intelligent conversation about your god, you need to define it in a meaningful way. What do I mean by 'meaningful'? It has to be falsifiable. As in, there needs to be some way to test it, to potentially falsify it's existence. If you define your god to be "outside of space and time", that removes him from our space and time and makes his existence unfalsifiable. Such a being, entirely removed from perceivable reality, is effectively identical to a nonexistent god; and a nonexistent god is more probable because it makes less assumptions (Occam's Razor strikes again).

Unless you can supply a meaningful (i.e. falsifiable) definition for your god concept, we might as well be debating the existence of Norks. What are Norks you ask? Well, they are beings that create universe creating gods. How do I know this? Because I defined them as such. Preposterous you say? Indeed, and unless you can do better, we're at an impasse.



Only present things that, if they were proven false, would cause you to change your position.

This is a fun example that more often than not bites creationists in the ass. Before you present an argument or a piece of evidence, ask yourself this "If this evidence were shown to be false or the exact opposite of what I currently think it is, would this be a strong enough piece of evidence to change my own position?"

For example, is your belief in a literal flood thousands of years ago so crucial to your faith that it's refutation would cause you to change your position? No? Then don't bother trying to use anything about the flood in your arguments. Unless it is enough of a cornerstone of your position that it's refutation would cause you to change your mind, don't present that argument or evidence. Likewise if there is nothing anyone could say or do to change your mind, save us all the trouble and don't say anything; we have no time for presupposition (we'd all have a more constructive conversation with a brick wall).

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11-05-2016, 10:35 PM
RE: I come bearing the good news of my Father which art in Heaven.
(11-05-2016 07:01 PM)chrisdubbya Wrote:  I think that was the point. That he doesn't use the powerful, strong rich or influential. He used the most unlikely
Accept that at this point the uneducated, gullible, and unskeptical is EXACTLY who I expect him to send so he's sending literally the most likely.

It is held that valour is the chiefest virtue and most dignifies the haver.
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11-05-2016, 10:44 PM
RE: I come bearing the good news of my Father which art in Heaven.
(11-05-2016 10:35 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  
(11-05-2016 07:01 PM)chrisdubbya Wrote:  I think that was the point. That he doesn't use the powerful, strong rich or influential. He used the most unlikely
Accept that at this point the uneducated, gullible, and unskeptical is EXACTLY who I expect him to send so he's sending literally the most likely.

Funny how religiosity inversely scales with education. Rolleyes

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11-05-2016, 10:58 PM
RE: I come bearing the good news of my Father which art in Heaven.
(11-05-2016 07:15 PM)chrisdubbya Wrote:  That's from 1904 to present day and all of these numbers are low estimates.
I'm aware of them, however just listing numbers of dead doesn't tell you anything other than how many people died. A single data point is worthless, but when you compare the number of people dying to the total number of people the numbers show a dramatic decline. You are many many times less likely to be the victim of violence today then you were just 20 years ago and the data proves it.

(11-05-2016 07:15 PM)chrisdubbya Wrote:  You forget that we have more methods to kill people then ever before and have used them over and over.
I haven't forgotten anything, the fact remains is that the number of people relative to the population that are dying from violence of any kind is down across the board.
We have more methods but they are being used less frequently, and effect a MUCH smaller % of the population than at any point in history.

(11-05-2016 07:15 PM)chrisdubbya Wrote:  Don't just stick to the U.S. Statistics. Open your mind to more than just our neighborhood.
Maybe actually look at the graphs cause of the 7 there 4 aren't exclusive to the US, multiple ones are world statistic and the link I gave you is not about America. For shit sake one is about Mexico exclusively!

(11-05-2016 07:15 PM)chrisdubbya Wrote:  All of this goes to prove that when unleashed to do whatever we want we as mankind strive for destruction.
Not even remotely. That's a laughably easy claim to refute by simply pointing out that if it were true the DRAMATIC rise in the human population should have seen a correspondingly high increase in violent activity in the world as a whole and not a downward trend which is actually the case.
The world should be a Mad Max nightmare by now, with 7 + billion of us running around, if that was true.

You sir are just wrong.

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11-05-2016, 11:09 PM
RE: I come bearing the good news of my Father which art in Heaven.
(11-05-2016 07:25 PM)chrisdubbya Wrote:  I think allowed is the most applicable term. Not caused.
You are like that guy in the SAW series acting like he never killed anyone lol Yes if god created everything like Christians claim then he also created the Plague, if he has the attributes those same idiots say he does than he KNEW when creating it it would kill as many people as it did and he went ahead and made it. But not just it, he also made millions of people with the knowledge that they would be born just to die of Plague.

It's idiotic.




(11-05-2016 07:25 PM)chrisdubbya Wrote:  Why would a "God" stop something terrible from happening to a species so adamant at rejecting his existence. Would you?
Yes for fuck sake of course I would, I'm not a bloody psychopath! Wouldn't you? What moral being wouldn't? For shit sake at the time it happened and the people it happened to they were 99% +/- 3% believing in god!
What was this huge swath of people during the Plague that were out there preaching rejection of god? 'Cause I never heard of them.

Also there is a difference between rejecting the existence of soemthing that actually can be shown to exist and looking at the evidence of his existence and finding...none....which is what most of us here have done. That's a conversation for a different time though.

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11-05-2016, 11:14 PM
RE: I come bearing the good news of my Father which art in Heaven.
Must have to much time on your hands to collect all these internet junk and posted here...

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11-05-2016, 11:21 PM (This post was last modified: 11-05-2016 11:36 PM by WhiskeyDebates.)
RE: I come bearing the good news of my Father which art in Heaven.
(11-05-2016 08:02 PM)chrisdubbya Wrote:  But I fear those thoughts come from a much smaller "Reality" than is necessary to explain a god.
Didn't just stop you from offering a bunch of "explanations" about how god exists and functions. Funny that.
Also what you just did was a basic Christian tactic of defining god as beyond understanding, which just patently dishonest as well as fallacious. There is no such thing as a "bigger" or "smaller" reality, there is just reality, and the fact that in reality your god doesn't seem to exist is not cause or justification to define him as outside it ( a concept that doesn't even make sense).

(11-05-2016 07:25 PM)chrisdubbya Wrote:  If God originally existed outside of our reality (forgive my use of words related to time) then any word we have to describe such a being would not be adequate.
There is not one tiny microscopic shred of evidence that he does, and a great many reasons why he can't, so your "what if" is entirely unevidenced nonsense and can be completely dismissed without consideration.

(11-05-2016 07:25 PM)chrisdubbya Wrote:  The biblical God is shown creating time.
Wow. You and I have RADICALLY different definition of what "shown" means. Asserted maybe, but not "shown".

Here is a question for you: What was the series of events that god used to create time? How did he go from WANTING to create time to actively creating time...without time and thus the ability to progress from wanting to doing?

(11-05-2016 07:25 PM)chrisdubbya Wrote:  Therefore since all of our language is based around the use of words describing time it is impossible to describe a being who is outside of time with the use of words bound by time.
Assertion, no evidenced. Dismissed as the twaddle it is.

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11-05-2016, 11:23 PM
RE: I come bearing the good news of my Father which art in Heaven.
(11-05-2016 08:07 PM)chrisdubbya Wrote:  But does it really describe all of reality? Anything used to determine time was created. We can't even acknowledge the existence of time without objects. So when God created mass he created time as well.
I am both amazed and amused that you can't see the GLARING problem with that assertion. Laugh out load

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11-05-2016, 11:30 PM
RE: I come bearing the good news of my Father which art in Heaven.
(11-05-2016 08:19 PM)chrisdubbya Wrote:  Agreed.
There is no way I can prove his existence.
And true I cannot by myself infer anything about this God on my own.
But I believe that is the point behind the bible. We arrive at the point where our experiences cannot define nor prove the existence of a God.
But according to the Bible God desires a relationship with is from the beginning and while the communication may never be fully understood by us bound to this reality this God pursues a relationship with us.
According to a book written by people who couldn't infer anything about this god themselves, a BOOK written during a time when the vast majority of the people alive couldn't read....in a no account back water of the planet.

Your nonsense is not internally consistent and it makes your god look like a damn idiot.




(11-05-2016 08:19 PM)chrisdubbya Wrote:  And yes it can be dauntingly absurd but not impossible when the creator of this "Reality" desires our friendship.
How many friendships do you know that started with one party creating a pathogen to kill millions of his "friends" while he sat around doing sweet fuck all while it killed them and could have easily stopped it or never made the pathogen in the first place. Not many I should think.

DERP.Hobo

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11-05-2016, 11:31 PM
RE: I come bearing the good news of my Father which art in Heaven.
(11-05-2016 08:25 PM)chrisdubbya Wrote:  True. Again all of this is based on a faulty definition of God.
The answer to all of these lies in why you believe he created the universe.
Those are not answers by any stretch of the meaning of that word.

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