I do not like vigilantism. But.
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
01-10-2012, 01:51 PM
RE: I do not like vigilantism. But.
(01-10-2012 01:39 PM)Greatest I am Wrote:  
(01-10-2012 12:18 PM)DLJ Wrote:  At least then, the term "militant" atheist would not be oxymoronic.

No, DL, no violence... not on my watch!

DLJ

ps, but I would let choir boys carry knives!

What would you recommend then to end the violent rape of the pedophile priest protectors when your government does nothing?

Regards
DL

I don't think the protectors are being violently raped... but I know what you meant to say.

I would recommend exactly what is happening: Court action (i.e. in Ireland right now) and stigmatisation (the world over).

If the same can happen with Genital Mutilation, honour killings etc. there is hope for humankind.

Backlash merely creates more backlash.

(did you notice my "ps" on the earlier comment? A few castrations in self-defense is the kinda GM that could be forgiven)

Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes DLJ's post
01-10-2012, 01:52 PM
RE: I do not like vigilantism. But.
(01-10-2012 01:48 PM)Impulse Wrote:  
(01-10-2012 12:16 PM)Greatest I am Wrote:  I do not like vigilantism. But.

I exempt the Pope and others of his ilk from my usual rules against vigilante action.

For those criminals, I would say to any vigilante to go for it because those in power are ignoring the law of most lands as well as the young victims of such heinous crimes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z02J_kPincA

In terms of pedophile protecting regimes, need I say more?

------------------------------------

Muslims. What of you?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3AvnWDYMpA

All such should pay a heavy price.

If moral people are not going to push their governments for justice then I would ask that vigilantes move themselves to action. Justice demands it.

Regards
DL
What, you want to create martyrs?
Hell no!
And this is not the sort of thing we want associated with atheism.

I do not want this associated with anyone either but if good people do not care enough to move their governments, what justice then do the victims get?

Regards
DL
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
01-10-2012, 01:58 PM
RE: I do not like vigilantism. But.
(01-10-2012 01:51 PM)DLJ Wrote:  
(01-10-2012 01:39 PM)Greatest I am Wrote:  What would you recommend then to end the violent rape of the pedophile priest protectors when your government does nothing?

Regards
DL

I don't think the protectors are being violently raped... but I know what you meant to say.

I would recommend exactly what is happening: Court action (i.e. in Ireland right now) and stigmatisation (the world over).

If the same can happen with Genital Mutilation, honour killings etc. there is hope for humankind.

Backlash merely creates more backlash.

(did you notice my "ps" on the earlier comment? A few castrations in self-defense is the kinda GM that could be forgiven)

I admit to not seeing your P S.

I do like what Ireland is doing and if the other Western nation did the same I would not have had to write this O P.

Shame for what is not being done on this side of the pond prompted my post.

The justice system is the solution but only if it moves. It has not.

Regards
DL
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
01-10-2012, 02:00 PM
RE: I do not like vigilantism. But.
(01-10-2012 01:52 PM)Greatest I am Wrote:  
(01-10-2012 01:48 PM)Impulse Wrote:  What, you want to create martyrs?
Hell no!
And this is not the sort of thing we want associated with atheism.

I do not want this associated with anyone either but if good people do not care enough to move their governments, what justice then do the victims get?

Regards
DL
In our quest for resolutions and/or justice, we must never become like them. Justice must be sought in other ways. The Muslim extremist issue is completely different from the Papacy issue also. I don't see how vigilantism provides justice anyway for either situation. It doesn't bring back the dead and it doesn't contribute to resolving the issues. It's just a few more corpses with the blood on our hands instead.

"Religion has caused more misery to all of mankind in every stage of human history than any other single idea." --Madalyn Murray O'Hair
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
01-10-2012, 02:05 PM
RE: I do not like vigilantism. But.
(01-10-2012 01:49 PM)Greatest I am Wrote:  Your solution then is for most governments to be overthrown for a new regime. A good thought but what is the likelihood of that happening?

Near 0.

That leaves the victims of pedophiles to fend for themselves.

Nice way for us to protect our children that. Not.

Revolutions happen all the time.

The likelihood of it has no bearing on the necessity of it nor on the appropriateness of it. Likely or unlikely, governmental reform, with or without a revolution, is the correct solution that protects the people.

Vigilantism is a slippery, dangerous slope. As soon as we condone some parent taking matters into his own hand and killing someone who hurt that parent's child, then maybe next time that parent kills someone who simply says something inappropriate to the child, maybe next time he kills someone for simply looking in the direction of his child, etc.

Yes, that was simplistic. But the point is, we cannot leave it up to every citizen to decide, in their own minds, what is and is not an appropriate reason to justify vigilantism.

I don't want all of my neighbors making those kinds of decisions about my behavior. What if I cut someone off on the freeway - what if that crosses his "vigilante reason" line and he starts shooting at me? I know for a fact that there are some religious fundies here in the US that truly believe atheism is punishable by death - I bet very few people on these boards would like to leave that vigilante decision up to their neighbors - I know I wouldn't.

Condone it once, and it's easier for the vigilante mindset to expect condoning of all their other vigilante actions, and easier and easier for them to justify taking the law into their own hands for more and more things they don't like.

Pretty soon we have everyone shooting at everyone else and we're all living in the stone age - want something, just go take it from the next caveman that has it, but you better defend it from all the rest who want to take it from you. Might makes right. Everyone's a vigilante.

Sure, that's extreme. But each time we condone it, we move farther away from a good, egalitarian, utopian society and closer to an anarchy.

Bad idea.

"Whores perform the same function as priests, but far more thoroughly." - Robert A. Heinlein
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Aseptic Skeptic's post
01-10-2012, 02:15 PM
RE: I do not like vigilantism. But.
DL,

Do you recall what happened when the Daily Mail etc. whipped up anti-pedophile hated in the UK and there was mob violence?

Yup, the intelligent British public attacked a paediatrician!

Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes DLJ's post
01-10-2012, 02:21 PM
RE: I do not like vigilantism. But.
Mob intelligence - take the minimum IQ and divide by the number of people in the mob. A certain kind of politician loves mobs for that reason. All others regard them with fear and loathing, for that reason.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
01-10-2012, 02:38 PM
RE: I do not like vigilantism. But.
(01-10-2012 02:00 PM)Impulse Wrote:  
(01-10-2012 01:52 PM)Greatest I am Wrote:  I do not want this associated with anyone either but if good people do not care enough to move their governments, what justice then do the victims get?

Regards
DL
In our quest for resolutions and/or justice, we must never become like them. Justice must be sought in other ways. The Muslim extremist issue is completely different from the Papacy issue also. I don't see how vigilantism provides justice anyway for either situation. It doesn't bring back the dead and it doesn't contribute to resolving the issues. It's just a few more corpses with the blood on our hands instead.

How then to move the government to enforce the law of the land?

Regards
DL
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
01-10-2012, 02:44 PM
RE: I do not like vigilantism. But.
(01-10-2012 02:05 PM)Aseptic Skeptic Wrote:  
(01-10-2012 01:49 PM)Greatest I am Wrote:  Your solution then is for most governments to be overthrown for a new regime. A good thought but what is the likelihood of that happening?

Near 0.

That leaves the victims of pedophiles to fend for themselves.

Nice way for us to protect our children that. Not.

Revolutions happen all the time.

The likelihood of it has no bearing on the necessity of it nor on the appropriateness of it. Likely or unlikely, governmental reform, with or without a revolution, is the correct solution that protects the people.

Vigilantism is a slippery, dangerous slope. As soon as we condone some parent taking matters into his own hand and killing someone who hurt that parent's child, then maybe next time that parent kills someone who simply says something inappropriate to the child, maybe next time he kills someone for simply looking in the direction of his child, etc.

Yes, that was simplistic. But the point is, we cannot leave it up to every citizen to decide, in their own minds, what is and is not an appropriate reason to justify vigilantism.

I don't want all of my neighbors making those kinds of decisions about my behavior. What if I cut someone off on the freeway - what if that crosses his "vigilante reason" line and he starts shooting at me? I know for a fact that there are some religious fundies here in the US that truly believe atheism is punishable by death - I bet very few people on these boards would like to leave that vigilante decision up to their neighbors - I know I wouldn't.

Condone it once, and it's easier for the vigilante mindset to expect condoning of all their other vigilante actions, and easier and easier for them to justify taking the law into their own hands for more and more things they don't like.

Pretty soon we have everyone shooting at everyone else and we're all living in the stone age - want something, just go take it from the next caveman that has it, but you better defend it from all the rest who want to take it from you. Might makes right. Everyone's a vigilante.

Sure, that's extreme. But each time we condone it, we move farther away from a good, egalitarian, utopian society and closer to an anarchy.

Bad idea.

I cannot argue much against this as it is my normal thinking.

" we cannot leave it up to every citizen to decide, in their own minds, what is and is not an appropriate reason to justify vigilantism. "

If the law will not enforce the law of the land then I suggest we already live in somewhat of an anarchy system. It is anarchy within the legal system as they just enforce whatever law they seem to favor. That is not justice.

Regards
DL
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
01-10-2012, 02:47 PM
RE: I do not like vigilantism. But.
(01-10-2012 02:15 PM)DLJ Wrote:  DL,

Do you recall what happened when the Daily Mail etc. whipped up anti-pedophile hated in the UK and there was mob violence?

Yup, the intelligent British public attacked a paediatrician!

I would not mind a link if you have one.

Was he a pedophile who had escaped justice?

We should also remember that in this case, it is institutionalized protection of pedophiles.

Regards
DL
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: