I do not like vigilantism. But.
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02-10-2012, 12:56 PM
RE: I do not like vigilantism. But.
If I were conspiratorial in nature, I'd be forgiven for thinking that the OP is a Creationist plant who is here to get atheists and agnostics to say that they are in favor of mob violence so they can mine our quotes. Before you know it, Ray Comfort will be using our quotes in his "Atheism Unraveled" Seminar to warn poor Christian youths of the "dangers of atheism."

No offense OP, but you show up here and one of your first posts is to create a thread urging vigilante justice and mob violence against leaders and prominent political figures, then you take great pain throughout the rest of the thread to refute those who don't agree with you and to try to get them to say that yes, we should use vigilante justice. That to me is very suspicious.

And if you are for real, I would urge you to leave the forums ASAP. I would not be surprised if you get a visit from the FBI after some of the remarks you've made advocating for violence against world leaders. But personally, I think you are a Creationist troll looking for quotes that you guys can use against us, so you can keep making the erroneous remarks that we atheists and agnostics are somehow savages and violent thugs.

Stop the itchy blanket of Creationism from spreading to our classrooms. Say no to Iron Age superstitions Evil_monster
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02-10-2012, 01:16 PM
RE: I do not like vigilantism. But.
(02-10-2012 11:50 AM)Impulse Wrote:  If you're replying to me, I didn't mean to imply that the church should handle it exclusively. I was just saying that I believe it's membership will pressure them into doing more than they have up to now. But the public and trials will have an impact as well and I agree that they should.

Nah, was kinda just a general comment, instigated a little bit by your post (you don't bash Catholics enough... I jest Wink )- I didn't think you were saying that, just the church's approach so far *has* been to try and say 'oh, we'll handle it, just don't go poking your policeman's nose into our business', so it's worth emphasizing that that's complete bullshit.
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02-10-2012, 01:25 PM
RE: I do not like vigilantism. But.
(02-10-2012 12:56 PM)Ozzie Wrote:  But personally, I think you are a Creationist troll looking for quotes that you guys can use against us, so you can keep making the erroneous remarks that we atheists and agnostics are somehow savages and violent thugs.

I can't quite figure this out though. Why bother quote mining? Why not just make stuff up and claim that we said it? It's not like anyone's gonna check, or even if they do it won't hurt sales - that's the beauty of selling shit to stupid people. For this reason I think OP must be legit. Undecided
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02-10-2012, 07:23 PM
RE: I do not like vigilantism. But.
(02-10-2012 08:56 AM)Greatest I am Wrote:  
(01-10-2012 05:51 PM)Starcrash Wrote:  The problem with taking the law into your own hands is that you excuse everyone who wishes to do so. And what if Christians saw us in the same light that you see the Pope and Muslims? I think they do.

So, unless you want to erect a double-standard, you're suggesting that Christians should have the freedom to "enact justice" against atheists. "Great idea," he said sarcastically.

"But justice isn't being done!" you cry. Of course it is. Muslims aren't breaking the laws of their own countries, which is why they aren't being arrested for crimes. The Muslims in the US aren't committing the crimes done in Islamic states, because if they did they'd end up in Guantanamo Bay. The pope is the ruler of a city-state, and I imagine he's not breaking the "laws" of Vatican City. I think we all hate dictators that do whatever they like, but they're not law-breakers because they make their own laws. Other Catholics that commit these crimes are being arrested/sued, and I don't see why we'd need to compound their punishment for the sake of their leader's "crimes".

Who asked for compounding the punishment because of the church leadership?
Not me.

Are you suggesting that atheists are breaking the law of the land?
For your analogy to be close, they would have to be.

That is the law at issue here. Nothing else.

Regards
DL

I think you're equivocating "the land" in "the law of the land". I gave a very protracted explanation of why these groups aren't breaking the laws of the countries they live in. Our countries' laws don't apply to them, and when they do (because those groups are breaking our laws within our borders), those laws are being enforced.

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02-10-2012, 07:26 PM
RE: I do not like vigilantism. But.
(02-10-2012 12:56 PM)Ozzie Wrote:  If I were conspiratorial in nature, I'd be forgiven for thinking that the OP is a Creationist plant who is here to get atheists and agnostics to say that they are in favor of mob violence so they can mine our quotes. Before you know it, Ray Comfort will be using our quotes in his "Atheism Unraveled" Seminar to warn poor Christian youths of the "dangers of atheism."

No offense OP, but you show up here and one of your first posts is to create a thread urging vigilante justice and mob violence against leaders and prominent political figures, then you take great pain throughout the rest of the thread to refute those who don't agree with you and to try to get them to say that yes, we should use vigilante justice. That to me is very suspicious.

And if you are for real, I would urge you to leave the forums ASAP. I would not be surprised if you get a visit from the FBI after some of the remarks you've made advocating for violence against world leaders. But personally, I think you are a Creationist troll looking for quotes that you guys can use against us, so you can keep making the erroneous remarks that we atheists and agnostics are somehow savages and violent thugs.

Please don't use ad hominem or try to limit the OP's free speech. The validity and soundness of his argument don't depend on whether or not he's a creationist or on what his motives are. That may be interesting information to know, but that's all.

My girlfriend is mad at me. Perhaps I shouldn't have tried cooking a stick in her non-stick pan.
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03-10-2012, 11:35 AM
RE: I do not like vigilantism. But.
(02-10-2012 10:43 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(02-10-2012 09:02 AM)Greatest I am Wrote:  Hmm. The peace marchers would disagree as they were called mobs many a time even when they were peaceful marches.

Regards
DL

You are advocating that they *not* be peaceful marchers. How do you feel about lynchings?

As stated, vigilantism is not my first choice.

If someone has someone who should answer to the law in hand, then to the law he should go.

In the popes case, the law is ignoring him and that is the only reason I make the type of noise I am making.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ryw6kUDKP...r_embedded

Regards
DL
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03-10-2012, 11:38 AM
RE: I do not like vigilantism. But.
(02-10-2012 10:43 AM)Aseptic Skeptic Wrote:  
(02-10-2012 08:30 AM)Greatest I am Wrote:  I have not tracked the number of beatings that Rodney King and that situation prevented but if the police needed a reminder that they were there to serve and protect, not be the bullies for their white masters.

Simple answer: Zero. None. Nada.

You have checked the police statistics have you?

Regards
DL
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03-10-2012, 11:45 AM
RE: I do not like vigilantism. But.
(02-10-2012 11:01 AM)Impulse Wrote:  [

I do agree with the unacceptability of the institutionalized protection, but I think the church will eventually be pressured into doing better even by its own members alone, but also by the general public.

I hope you are right but with the poor morals that believers have, they would rather take the churches money for damages to their children that the children will likely never see and just keep their mouths shut.

If it is to end it will have to be the law and so far they are showing that they have their heads up the pope's ass.

As top the general public, they influence governments sure but we do not hear any noise from them as they seem to think this a religion issue and don't care.

Regards
DL
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03-10-2012, 11:49 AM
RE: I do not like vigilantism. But.
(02-10-2012 11:12 AM)morondog Wrote:  I don't think for a second that this kind of abuse stuff should be allowed to be covered up by the church or that the church should be allowed to handle it as an internal matter - it's a matter for courts and the law, just as any sexual assault case. But vigilante justice is not an acceptable solution either. We worked hard for civilization. Vigilantism is a significant step backwards that would take a long time to recover from, because we are saying 'it is acceptable to take the law into your own hands'...

That is not what I am saying.
I am saying that it is acceptable to take the law into your own hands when the hands that are charged with law are bought off by the law breaker or that the law is too cowardly to do it's job.

Regards
DL
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03-10-2012, 11:58 AM
RE: I do not like vigilantism. But.
(02-10-2012 12:56 PM)Ozzie Wrote:  If I were conspiratorial in nature, I'd be forgiven for thinking that the OP is a Creationist plant who is here to get atheists and agnostics to say that they are in favor of mob violence so they can mine our quotes. Before you know it, Ray Comfort will be using our quotes in his "Atheism Unraveled" Seminar to warn poor Christian youths of the "dangers of atheism."

No offense OP, but you show up here and one of your first posts is to create a thread urging vigilante justice and mob violence against leaders and prominent political figures, then you take great pain throughout the rest of the thread to refute those who don't agree with you and to try to get them to say that yes, we should use vigilante justice. That to me is very suspicious.

And if you are for real, I would urge you to leave the forums ASAP. I would not be surprised if you get a visit from the FBI after some of the remarks you've made advocating for violence against world leaders. But personally, I think you are a Creationist troll looking for quotes that you guys can use against us, so you can keep making the erroneous remarks that we atheists and agnostics are somehow savages and violent thugs.

I would be quite pleased actually if the law did take me in hand.

I would sue them for not administering the law that I pay for with my taxes.

We both know though that public noise of their incompetence is the last thing the law wants so trust me, I will be forever free.

Regards
DL
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