I don't agree with the anti-bullying movement

[namiloveyou]

(24-12-2012 04:31 PM)Luminon Wrote:  

(24-12-2012 02:58 PM)Science Believer Wrote:  I will agree... kinda. As a person who was bullied as a child, I have found that the best way to handle a bully is to fight back. When I have kids, I will train them in Martial Arts, just like I was, and teach them how to fight back. If a bully bothers them at school, and the teachers/administrators don't do anything about it, my kid will go with me to the child's house and I'll watch as my kid beats the crap out of them.

That may sound like a solution, but in most cases it won't help. Beating up a bully works like for three weeks, then he needs another beating. It doesn't work when there are whole freakin' classes of bullies (usually jocks) plus miscellaneous classmates. And it doesn't work when the bullying isn't physical but emotional, verbal, setting up, shunning and so on.

The only thing that works against bullying is to fit in. To have friends, to be in a collective, to not be alone. And some people just can't do that. In my class, we had a "healthy core" of drinkers and smokers and then the rest of loners who were pathologically incapable of hanging out together. I must say, the "healthy core" members sometimes tried to provoke some kind of response from the outsiders by lesser or greater shock therapy, but it didn't really work.

Sometimes I dream of a peer therapy class. Are there any kids who are not too fucked up or self-centered to take in some outsiders and train them in the fine art of hanging out together? No, that's too hopeful. Perhaps a school club equipped with a safe supervised computer room, a psychologist and an after school program of acting skills, careful restoring the physique and weight loss.

As for what can we do, we should teach our kids to watch out for bullies and beat them up if they bully someone else. Not that mind your own business stuff. Not only bullies are despicable creatures, they should also scare the hell out of everyone. Perhaps they won't mow down a half of class with a gun themselves, but can bring others into a small personal concentration camp of their own and eventually to a breaking point.

I don't think mass shootings invalidate bullying.

It denotes weak coping skills, and shouldn't be praised as you think. Cho in Virginia Tech wasn't even being bullied.

[namiloveyou]

(24-12-2012 03:09 PM)Dragon-Wolf Wrote:  

(24-12-2012 08:35 AM)namiloveyou Wrote:  I think as humans can be cruel, it doesn't matter what we do.



I also, as many in society seem to believe, that society will "fall apart" should bullying be seen as normal. I see no logical evidence this is the case.

So..we should just step back and watch while children get verbally and physically harassed?
Are you going to then act with "shock" when your kid does the same things to others?

Are you going to permit others to harass you to?
Do you really think allowing harassment and bullying is going to make this civilization one worth fighting for or even maintaining?

I honestly do not understand your sentiments here.

Hmmm... morals are subjective, yet some states are better than others. Nice congruence there.

As a moral subjectivist, I simply believe whatever the majority deem fit is correct. Thus, should anti-bullying be discarded in 20 years or so, so be it. I doubt society will "fall apart" as many seem to believe. Kindly state a study showing that contemporary social morals are needed to ultimate social cohesion.

[namiloveyou]

(24-12-2012 12:48 PM)Luminon Wrote:  

(24-12-2012 08:35 AM)namiloveyou Wrote:  I think as humans can be cruel, it doesn't matter what we do.

I also, as many in society seem to believe, that society will "fall apart" should bullying be seen as normal. I see no logical evidence this is the case.

If you think bullying is normal, then school shootings must be normal too. You can't have one without the other, specially in America. Shoot the damn fuckers, shoot them all and kill those who always stood by and did nothing, said nothing, looked the other way. Take down the teachers too, they're responsible for what happens on their grounds. They all just cover for the jocks anyway, because they bring the school money. Where's my Bushmaster?

Yeah....

nobody is owed anything. Maybe those who "did nothing" didn't like you. Or otherwise didn't respect you.

Yeah.... and violence begets violence.

Look, life is tough. I think your post denoting mass violence shows younger people lack the tools to handle life. Citing "an eye for an eye" morality is unhealthy and frankly abnormal.

[fstratzero]

(24-12-2012 08:35 AM)namiloveyou Wrote:  I think as humans can be cruel, it doesn't matter what we do.

I also, as many in society seem to believe, that society will "fall apart" should bullying be seen as normal. I see no logical evidence this is the case.

I agree with you. I don't see any reason to limit free speech. Personally I think it all boils down to education, teaching people that the internet is a public place, and giving them coping skills and access to psychologists.

[namiloveyou]

(24-12-2012 12:55 PM)bemore Wrote:  Bullying is stupid.

Its not big and its not clever.

lol... isn't stupidity subjective?

It's "clever" to acknowledge that some humans are "bad".

[FZUMedia]

Bullying is an evil that must be stopped by the good and virtuous- although their is so much bullying and violence in the adult world, what example do kids have to copy?

[Birdguy1979]

I am torn on this issue. On the one hand I don't want my kids to be teased like I was, but I can teach them what I have learned about spotting and attacking weakness. I just hate when someone tries to bully me now with words and they are too dumb to understand when they are outclassed. I think that it needs to truly be a 0 tolerance policy or a free for all. I know I can teach my kids to hold their ground, at least with words anyway. Phisically is a different story.

[Phaedrus]

If you feel that you would pull a gun on someone in anger, then you should not own a gun.


I might punch a man if he offended me badly enough; I would never pull a gun for such a trivial matter. A good gun owner has the utmost self-control when it comes to firearms. You don't point an unloaded gun at a person on accident; let alone pull a loaded gun on another person with intent to shoot, unless they've threatened you.

Of course, there are bad gun owners...

[namiloveyou]

(24-12-2012 09:13 PM)FZUMedia Wrote:  Bullying is an evil that must be stopped by the good and virtuous- although their is so much bullying and violence in the adult world, what example do kids have to copy?

Who defines "good" and "virtuous"?

These terms never have meaning.

[namiloveyou]

(24-12-2012 11:40 PM)Phaedrus Wrote:  If you feel that you would pull a gun on someone in anger, then you should not own a gun.


I might punch a man if he offended me badly enough; I would never pull a gun for such a trivial matter. A good gun owner has the utmost self-control when it comes to firearms. You don't point an unloaded gun at a person on accident; let alone pull a loaded gun on another person with intent to shoot, unless they've threatened you.

Of course, there are bad gun owners...

And that man will simply tell the police you punched him, and you will go to jail or at least receive a criminal record.

You will also get a reputation of being hot-headed and easily provoked, as well as lacking emotional control. lol..

I often tell things to people in arguments that will hurt them, as an excuse for them to hit me and then for them to look bad.