I don't get the US voting system... Pls explain this to me
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30-10-2016, 03:45 PM
I don't get the US voting system... Pls explain this to me
There is a thing that I don't understand in US politics.

I will explain what I observe from the outside and maybe you will understand why I am superconfused and explain it to me.

So in the beginning of the whole election thing you had several people declaring that they want to be president for a certain party. And the main 4 I can remember were Trump, Hillary, Bernie, and Pence or Pennie or whatshisname.

So then the thing with those first ... election things happened that was rigged as fucked. Media played it down. Hillary pretended that nothing bad was happening. But we know from leaked video material and first hand experience that it was indeed rigged.

So after that, Bernie suddenly dropped out, the fourth guy never really made a big name for himself.
Now suddenly all previous Bernie supporters want to vote Hillary because fuck Trump.
But no one is like "hey give me Bernie back, this shit was rigged, I want a proper, real, free election."
Instead of huge protests and the country being turned upside down, instead of demanding that part to be re-done because it was fucking rigged, people just say "meh ok, let's move on".

Plus the fact that people discourage protest votes where they would vote a third party instead of one of the two at the perceived top.

This is what I see. I am not judging, no bad feelings, there may be a lot of stuff that I just don't know in the background, about the system itself etc. But for now, I am really just wtf-ing. This is nuts.


I really really don't get it.
Please explain this to me.

Cheers
R.

"Freedom is the freedom to say that 2+2=4" - George Orwell (in 1984)
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30-10-2016, 03:49 PM
RE: I don't get the US voting system... Pls explain this to me
Because the people have no real power. Democracy is an illusion Drinking Beverage

If we came from dust, then why is there still dust?
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30-10-2016, 03:50 PM
RE: I don't get the US voting system... Pls explain this to me
I don't get it either, Leela, but I don't have the cajones to actually ask that question!

Respect lady, hope you get a kind and coherent answer!

Get the headache tablets ready...

Tomorrow is precious, don't ruin it by fouling up today.
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30-10-2016, 03:58 PM
RE: I don't get the US voting system... Pls explain this to me
Good luck to whoever takes on the challenge to explain how the US voting system works. Tongue

“The first duty of a man is to think for himself” ― José Martí
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30-10-2016, 04:19 PM
I don't get the US voting system... Pls explain this to me
Here's how it works. People that oppose the Clinton's usually commit suicide. Bernie wasn't ready to take his own life so he became her bitch.
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30-10-2016, 04:19 PM
RE: I don't get the US voting system... Pls explain this to me
well let's say in generally I get the idea. with that election thing beforehand, and how the states vote and so on. but I did not get the part with things being rigged so obviously and no one is getting angry enough but instead just moves on to elect either someone I perceive as low IQ narcissist or someone I perceive as bought by companies.

then again, I saw almost the same thing happen just a few years ago (2 maybe?) in Romania. So maybe the US was watching and is now doing the same on a big scale.

I do agree with cactus btw, Democrazy is generally an illusion.

"Freedom is the freedom to say that 2+2=4" - George Orwell (in 1984)
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30-10-2016, 04:27 PM (This post was last modified: 30-10-2016 04:31 PM by Escape Artist.)
RE: I don't get the US voting system... Pls explain this to me
All the people running for president at present are crap choices, but that's who there is to pick from. I don't understand when folks outside the U.S. say how can we be voting for this or that person... Well, because that's who's running and that's who is on the ballot for me to choose from. Until good people start running, we can't vote for good people.

ETA: Sure, if it's a state that allows write-ins for a vote, and if you could get most everybody in the nation on board with writing in the same person, then maybe that would be helpful? I forget what would happen if something like that occurred (Congress votes, maybe?), but anyway.

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30-10-2016, 04:37 PM
RE: I don't get the US voting system... Pls explain this to me
(30-10-2016 03:45 PM)Leela Wrote:  There is a thing that I don't understand in US politics.

I will explain what I observe from the outside and maybe you will understand why I am superconfused and explain it to me.

So in the beginning of the whole election thing you had several people declaring that they want to be president for a certain party. And the main 4 I can remember were Trump, Hillary, Bernie, and Pence or Pennie or whatshisname.

So then the thing with those first ... election things happened that was rigged as fucked. Media played it down. Hillary pretended that nothing bad was happening. But we know from leaked video material and first hand experience that it was indeed rigged.

So after that, Bernie suddenly dropped out, the fourth guy never really made a big name for himself.

There are 2 main political parties in the US plus a bunch of relatively minor parties. Each party puts up one person as candidate for president in the general election.

Hillary and Bernie were vying for the nomination of the Democrat party. They campaigned against each other for that and there were primary elections in each state to select representatives to go to the national convention to select the nominee. (Let's gloss over the fact that the parties have different processes in different states and it gets really complicated really fast.) Bernie dropped out just before the national convention of the Democrats because he did not have enough votes to win the nomination.

The Republicans started out with something like 17 people vying for their nomination but the process was similar. Some dropped out early in the process and some didn't drop out until just before the convention.

Each major candidate gets to pick whoever they want as the Vice Presidential candidate and once both major conventions are over the two nominees start campaigning for the general election.

Quote:Now suddenly all previous Bernie supporters want to vote Hillary because fuck Trump.
But no one is like "hey give me Bernie back, this shit was rigged, I want a proper, real, free election."
Instead of huge protests and the country being turned upside down, instead of demanding that part to be re-done because it was fucking rigged, people just say "meh ok, let's move on".

There are still people complaining about the Democrat convention and the rules that they used to get to Clinton as the nominee but, basically, you are right. There is a tradition of people supporting each party putting aside internal bickering and getting behind the nominee. The idea is that splitting your own party vote would guarantee the other party's candidate would win.

Quote:Plus the fact that people discourage protest votes where they would vote a third party instead of one of the two at the perceived top.

This is what I see. I am not judging, no bad feelings, there may be a lot of stuff that I just don't know in the background, about the system itself etc. But for now,

The reality is that candidates from the smaller parties do not have a chance so a vote for anybody else is taking a vote away from the one of the eventual winners and that may help the one you would like less.

Quote:I am really just wtf-ing. This is nuts.

I really really don't get it.

It is a system that has evolved over time and is totally insane so don't feel bad about feeling that way. A lot of us who live under it feel the same way. The question is how to change it.

To make matters worse, the president is actually elected by the Electoral College which is a small group of representatives from each state based on population. The general public is actually voting on who they want to select as electors to actually cast ballots for the president. In most states the winner of the general election gets all of the electors so if 51% of a state's vote is for candidate A then that candidate gets 100% of the electoral votes. A couple of states do divide the electors proportionally but it still isn't really accurate.

The whole system, start to finish, is just screwed up and needs to be scrapped.

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30-10-2016, 04:43 PM
RE: I don't get the US voting system... Pls explain this to me
Also, I kind of subscribe to the notion that "those who seek power are not worthy of that power" - Dumbledore says it pretty well, I think. Hobo Tongue

[Image: 29bf5ae9ebaba719f5dafb02e26e34c0.jpg]

Point is, maybe we'll never get good leaders. Maybe all the folks running for these positions are not worthy of the power these positions will give them. Or at least, maybe most of them are not worthy.

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30-10-2016, 04:56 PM
RE: I don't get the US voting system... Pls explain this to me
Thank you unfogged, that was a very detailed and helpful explanation.
I didn't know that bernie and hillary (so different in their ideas) were running for the same party.
The idea that the state votes for someone who will (hopefully) vote what they wanted to vote is a bit screwed in my opinion. I mean I understand that the US is a huge country and each state on its own is pretty much the size of a country but all votes are being counted anyway, so why not simply drop that middleman and use the votes as they come. Doesn't make much sense to me.

"Freedom is the freedom to say that 2+2=4" - George Orwell (in 1984)
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