I don't get the US voting system... Pls explain this to me
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30-10-2016, 05:10 PM (This post was last modified: 30-10-2016 05:15 PM by Full Circle.)
RE: I don't get the US voting system... Pls explain this to me
(30-10-2016 04:37 PM)unfogged Wrote:  To make matters worse, the president is actually elected by the Electoral College which is a small group of representatives from each state based on population. The general public is actually voting on who they want to select as electors to actually cast ballots for the president. In most states the winner of the general election gets all of the electors so if 51% of a state's vote is for candidate A then that candidate gets 100% of the electoral votes. A couple of states do divide the electors proportionally but it still isn't really accurate.

Leela, let me add to what unfogged has said.

The US is not a true democracy as most people envision what a democracy is.
We have a representational system — i.e., citizens vote to elect politicians to represent their interests and form the government.

The founders did not trust the rabble people to be properly informed and smart enough to select the president so they placed an extra step into the process. If the system works you could see Trump win the plurality of the votes cast by people like you and me and yet not be elected president because the Electoral College in each State decided that we the people had lost our collective minds and they voted for Clinton instead.

That is their right and that is how our system is designed.

ps This could be the first time in our history that the Electoral College votes differently than the plurality. We are in the front row of what could be an unprecedented event. Popcorn

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_...ed_States)

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30-10-2016, 05:11 PM (This post was last modified: 30-10-2016 05:16 PM by epronovost.)
RE: I don't get the US voting system... Pls explain this to me
@Leela

The problem with the American electoral system is that it was designed over 200 years ago where messengers on horses were the fastest method of communication over such a large territory. To simplify and reduce the logistical nightmare it would have been to make elections over such a large territory, a system of delegates was established (consideration over the fact that who could vote was different between states and fear of populist power were also major influence). That's why American election are so long and between the election of a President and him taking the reign of power, two months pass (that's the time for messengers to carry the result of the election in all the states).

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30-10-2016, 05:17 PM
RE: I don't get the US voting system... Pls explain this to me
(30-10-2016 05:11 PM)epronovost Wrote:  @Leela

The problem with the American electoral system is that it was designed over 200 years ago where messengers on horses were the fastest method of communication over such a large territory. To simplify and reduce the logistical nightmare it would have been to make elections over such a large territory, a system of delegates was established (consideration over the fact that who could vote was different between states and fear of populist power were also major influence). That's why American election are so long and between the election of a President and him taking the reign of power, two months pass (that's the time for messengers to carry the result of the election in all the states).

That makes no sense to me. You could still have a direct democracy using couriers on horseback.

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30-10-2016, 05:18 PM
RE: I don't get the US voting system... Pls explain this to me
(30-10-2016 05:10 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  The founders did not trust the rabble people to be properly informed and smart enough to select the president

I have never been more convinced of that than I am this year.

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30-10-2016, 05:34 PM
RE: I don't get the US voting system... Pls explain this to me
Super-delegates, that's something I just don't get.

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30-10-2016, 05:39 PM
RE: I don't get the US voting system... Pls explain this to me
(30-10-2016 05:17 PM)cactus Wrote:  
(30-10-2016 05:11 PM)epronovost Wrote:  @Leela

The problem with the American electoral system is that it was designed over 200 years ago where messengers on horses were the fastest method of communication over such a large territory. To simplify and reduce the logistical nightmare it would have been to make elections over such a large territory, a system of delegates was established (consideration over the fact that who could vote was different between states and fear of populist power were also major influence). That's why American election are so long and between the election of a President and him taking the reign of power, two months pass (that's the time for messengers to carry the result of the election in all the states).

That makes no sense to me. You could still have a direct democracy using couriers on horseback.

Holding debates, presenting all electoral platforms, change of candidates (a common occurence before the party system was implemented) communicating reliably with all regions were a luxury that couriers on horseback could not provide in the late 18th and early 19th century. The first decades of the American democracy were pretty chaotic.

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30-10-2016, 05:43 PM
RE: I don't get the US voting system... Pls explain this to me
(30-10-2016 05:18 PM)unfogged Wrote:  
(30-10-2016 05:10 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  The founders did not trust the rabble people to be properly informed and smart enough to select the president

I have never been more convinced of that than I am this year.

Me too. That’s why I’m so convinced of my signature.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”- Mark Twain in Eruption

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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30-10-2016, 05:44 PM
RE: I don't get the US voting system... Pls explain this to me
Also to sort of touch upon all the "third" parties that Unfogged mentioned, the largest are the Libertarians and Greens, and with Stein and Johnson pulling in almost 10% of projected votes between them (from the most generous polls), that's a huge amount for them. However, the system is actually rigged against third parties, and I don't use the term loosely. There are rules against them requiring more signatures to get on the ballots than a Democrat or Republican, and they can't even join the Presidential debates on television without having a certain percentage of the polls in their favor. Jill Stein of the Green Party was arrested in 2012 for trying to attend a debate as a candidate.

Need to think of a witty signature.
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30-10-2016, 05:46 PM
RE: I don't get the US voting system... Pls explain this to me
(30-10-2016 03:45 PM)Leela Wrote:  There is a thing that I don't understand in US politics.

Our system is a mess because it was designed two hundred years ago in a bygone era of sophistication, and everybody believes that they understand how it should work, and that it is a perfect system that is abused by the dubious minded people.

People are afraid of considering a new system, because they have never been introduced to the considerations of a different system. Those in control are obligated to defend the inadequate system.

What you may have witnessed in this past election cycle is probably the most egregious assault on the legitimacy of the system. Trump is obviously trying to get the people to recognize that the system is easily manipulated - I think he was double crossed by Clinton's promise of a political favor, and so, he is trying to tear it all down.

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30-10-2016, 08:31 PM
RE: I don't get the US voting system... Pls explain this to me
(30-10-2016 05:46 PM)TrainWreck Wrote:  
(30-10-2016 03:45 PM)Leela Wrote:  There is a thing that I don't understand in US politics.

Our system is a mess because it was designed two hundred years ago in a bygone era of sophistication, and everybody believes that they understand how it should work, and that it is a perfect system that is abused by the dubious minded people.

People are afraid of considering a new system, because they have never been introduced to the considerations of a different system. Those in control are obligated to defend the inadequate system.

What you may have witnessed in this past election cycle is probably the most egregious assault on the legitimacy of the system. Trump is obviously trying to get the people to recognize that the system is easily manipulated - I think he was double crossed by Clinton's promise of a political favor, and so, he is trying to tear it all down.
No it wasnt.. the system of current run was designed on the early 20th century on more components which is still as bad.

I get toy rail on Constituonal stuff being the marker and outdated but the majority of all voting system and election pathways aren't at all connected to those documents or their initial drives. The party's as entities and their systems or voting paths are all things that used to shift evey couple generations but for some reason there's such a idiotic beholding to staying within tradition of things on the post world war America that it's not shifting and remodeling on the new world climate like it typically had prior.

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